Philippines outlaws cybersex and webcam sex chat

The rapists of the sexual trade union have won a momentous victory in the Philippines with the news that the government there has banned 'cybersex' and 'cam girls' :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19659801

The Philippines has outlawed cybersex and online sex video chat.

Cybersex involves women - "cam girls"- chatting and performing sexual acts in front of webcams for internet clients.

It is a growing industry in many parts of the world, and often young women and under-age girls are forced into it.

Anyone breaking the law faces a fine of 250,000 Philippine pesos ($6,000; £3,700) and a jail term of up to six months.

The new legislation is part of the Cybercrime Prevention Act of 2012, signed by President Benigno Aquino on 15 September.

The act defines cybersex as "the wilful engagement, maintenance, control, or operation, directly or indirectly, of any lascivious exhibition of sexual organs or sexual activity, with the aid of a computer system, for favour or consideration".

One of the authors of the law, senator Edgardo Angara, said the act was needed to detect, investigate and suppress cybercrime such as hacking, cybersex, identity theft, spamming, and child pornography online.

The National Bureau of Investigation and the Philippine National Police are now meant to set up a cybercrime unit "to exclusively handle cases involving violations of this act".

89 thoughts on “Philippines outlaws cybersex and webcam sex chat

  1. inclinedreader

    It is a growing industry in many parts of the world, and often young women and under-age girls are forced into it.

    there they go again with that nonsense...

    Where is the proof? Dear dried-up vaginas of the Philippines (and that includes your men who have helped this bill along). Where are the independent peer-reviewed statistics to back up any part (really, any part at all, your pick...) of that bold claim?

    And don't tell me it's "hard to prove" because it's organized crime and its structures are impenetrable to law enforcement. That's a blatant lie that is told time and again to advance your puritan feminist agenda.

  2. theantifeminist

    Post author

    It probably has more to do with the threatened dried up vaginas of the West putting untold economic and political pressure on the Philippines government.

    This is a real blow to male sexuality if the global trade union are able to start seriously legislating against virtual sex (today 'cam sex', in 15 or 20 years real virtual sex, as good as the real thing, involving teledildonics/telepresence with dolls or robots).

    To realise how baseless this assumption is that organized crime would have to 'force' women and girls to participate in the sex trade just look at Japan until recently. Not exactly a poverty stricken country, and yet it was estimated that a majority of teen girls there from 13 and above were trading sex and companionship with older men for 'gifts' or money - entirely of their own free will.

  3. Jack

    Thousands of girls from the lower classes will be deprived of an easy livelihood. Note that in the short term it can be good news for the mainstream prostitution market. Girls who would be content with stripping in front of the web cam will need to take to the streets again.

    I often think a free sexual market is incompatible with the information Society. In the days of the steamboats people in England didn't give a damn about prostitutes in the Philippines or anywhere in the Empire. They were just a source of anecdotes for returning sailors or diplomats. Now the sheeple watches the media and gets in a sweat over legs spreading at the antipodes.

    Of course in the case of the Philippines one shouldn't underestimate the turf war between the local mafia/police and (foreign?) entrepreneurs who control the virtual sex market.

  4. inclinedreader

    This is a real blow to male sexuality if the global trade union are able to start seriously legislating against virtual sex

    I understand that is already happening in its early stages in the UK, with opt-in porn filters being thrust upon your ISP industry? So practically if a guy wants to have a wank to some online smut, whether he's single and sex-starved or in a relationship and doing it behind the missus's back (or perhaps even together with her), he has to tell his ISP that he wants to access porn.

    You don't have to let your imagination run wild to worry that the next time a certain kind of porn is outlawed, police might beat down your door at 3am on suspicion of possession of such then newly illegal porn, because you were on your ISP's list for porn access. The primary purpose of such legislation is far from "protecting children", no matter how much puritannical politicians attempt to frame it (see here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2134210/Im-fan-nanny-state-evidence-need-start-protecting-children-depraved-imagery.html), it is to restrict access altogether in the long run, and to make you afraid to tell your ISP "yes, I would like to see porn on my computer, thank you".

  5. Eric

    I see Hillary Clinton's dirty fingerprints all over this one. What's going on behind the scenes here is no doubt a real or implied threat of withholding US foreign-aid ( which is really only covert bribery paid to foreign governments on behalf of American interest groups) unless they agreed to do something to remedy this thorn in the femihag flesh.

    I don't know the situation in the rest of the Anglosphere, but the US media has so demonized all of SE Asia as a hotbed of lurid sexual goings-on that any American male who travels there for any reason is automatically suspected of engaging in it.

  6. Alan Vaughn

    It probably has more to do with the threatened dried up vaginas of the West putting untold economic and political pressure on the Philippines government.

    It would for sure.
    The same dried up old vaginas wouldn't have a clue what life is like for the average Filipino citizen. Many of those webcam girls have to do that because it is the only way they can eek out a meager existence for herself and her baby or young children and often even provide a little for her parents and/or siblings as well...

    I hope the Philippines government only signed such legislation as a token gesture to satisfy the international gynocracy's jealous old bags and after a few weeks it will all be 'swept under the rug' and otherwise ignored. I.e. the legislation will exist in statute or on the books, but not actually enforced. (I think the police will just turn a blind eye or just accept bribes to do so. Bribing police officers or any kind of 'officer' there is an embedded part of the culture anyway. This tends to be the case in all poverty stricken countries).
    If this ridiculous new feminist law is enforced, it will just mean a few more thousand young women and their illegitimate children will literally starve!

    The bitter and jealous old 'tradies' should be proud of themselves, especially since they're always loudly proclaiming that they always put children first and must 'protect them from harm'. (Harm from imaginary non-existent bogie-men, that is).
    But protecting children in third world countries from real harm such as total poverty, misery, no education, no medical services and early mortality, because the children's parents are all barely surviving themselves, isn't important at all.
    According to the gynocracy: the ONLY danger any child will ever face is that of being molested by a paedophile!

    An ironic twist to all this nonsense is that the Philippines is possibly the most Catholicised country in the world and its culture is therefore fairly conservative, yet oddly: a somewhat sexually liberated nation, at the same time.

    Filipinos are practical: whilst being a conservative and God fearing nation, the Philippines is generally a rather poor, developing country with a rapidly growing population, and most of its citizens recognize that women selling themselves for sex or simply erotica, by way of performing a private online show via a webcam is often their only chance of providing for themselves and their families.
    The unspoken but accepted rule-of-thumb is: 'if it will put food in your belly: go for it and if it will also put food in the bellies of your family, its a bonus!'
    (It doesn't matter either if whatever the activity is that will produce money for food or for vital medical treatment is illegal or immoral: if you're living on the verge of total starvation, your survival instinct rules)!

    There is little to no paedohysteria there, yet the penalty for (REAL and violent) rape is death!

    This whole story is a classic example of how the bitter and twisted femihags that now control the world via UN endorsed charities and other 'human rights' organizations, can easily intimidate governments from any country to adopt their misandric and Draconian policies, via PC manipulated language and feminazi shaming tactics.

  7. Jack

    Delete this post if it seems OT, but I think it may be of interest to the regular posters here to know that I too have been put in my place on AvFm for hinting at ages of consent. In fact I was doing so in response to a poster who was critisising Human Stupidity's previous post which was the subject of discussion here a few days ago. See the following link and search for "jack in reply to cuatezon", then read what comes next:

    http://www.avoiceformen.com/men/adios-man-o-sphere/#comments

  8. theantifeminist

    Post author

    If you're referring to Paul Elam's reply Jack, I have to say again, seemed pretty reasonable and restrained to me.

    The only problem I have is that AVfM isn't simply ignoring the feminist age of consent as a Men's rights issue, it's actively re-affirming it (through demanding that 17 year old boys are scarred for life for banging an older woman).

  9. Alan Vaughn

    Jack,
    It's not really OT at all and I think it proves what I've been saying all along about that blog.
    I.e this one from its owner who is always bitching and complaining about how the feminazi party with their white-knighting mangina thought police, stop him and others from exercising their right to free speech! (i.e read everything he and his partner in crime JTO have written about those white-knights tearing down their MRA posters in Vancouver Canada).
    To him 'free speech' is great, providing it conforms to HIS beliefs and dogmas, but he also said this to you:

    I urge you to remember, this is an activist website. Though it provides a lot of intellectual stimulation, its purpose is not as a think tank. Though there is quite a bit of latitude on posting, it is not a free speech zone. One thing it is not for sure is a silver platter for the singularly focused to present discussion on ideas that can only hurt us.

    He has effectively contradicted himself!
    If he's an ACTIVIST like he keeps insisting he is throughout his blog (i.e. 'FTSU') he wouldn't care if people submitted 'ideas that can only hurt us'.
    They only hurt him because he knows that the trade union will use them to accuse him of being a paedophile apologist or even an actual paedophile!
    Of course they are going to do that! That's why they lobbied for and won the Draconian, man destroying laws in the first place, but that is also why it is imperative that as MRA's we must vehemently oppose them and expose the lies associated with them to the world.

    I refuse to comment at that blog now, in fact after reading that post where you commented an ended up being attacked for it, I don't even visit the blog anymore.

    If he seriously thinks that what he's promulgated there is 'activism', he might as well just close the whole blog, not just the (closed) comments section because he's practically surrendered to the sexual trade union by what he and many of his avid mRA followers have said there...

    Ironically, manboobz said this (on his own blog, not at AVfM) recently about their ability as 'activists': (the comment followed after AVfM commentators were complaining about the manginas in Vancouver tearing down their MRA posters):

    MRAs: Given that virtually none of you have any experience as actual real world activists, you may not be aware of this, but POSTERS GET TORN DOWN. It’s annoying, and I don’t support it myself, but it happens all the time. Sometimes, you may actually run across people tearing down your posters, at which point there is usually some sort of awkward confrontation that may include yelling.

    You know what you do when this happens? You put your posters up again. You know what you don’t do? Compare the experience to rape. Because, on the list of the grand injustices of the world, having posters torn down is pretty far down the list, somewhere around “stubbing your toe” and “kitten farts on you.”

    Thus far, the above quote is the nearest thing to an intelligent comment I have seen from Fattroll!

  10. The Highwayman

    I am surprised that the feminists were able to recruit Vancouverites to do such an ardous task (tear down posters)...most Vancouverites like to loiter around get stoned most of the time!

    This news from the Phillipines is sad but predictable and I agree that international bullying likely played a role here. The Phillipines is a known destination for western men (and japanese and south korean men) to find love and sex so naturally that country will find itself on international feminism's hit list.

    While we are talking about foreign countries I found this piece of mangina trash here:

    http://ca.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_250/271_why-single-men-cant-go-to-bangkok.html

    Here we have a "relationship correspondent" telling men to bow down to sexual trade union social pressure and avoid going to Bangkok Thailand because feminist women do not approve of it....ironic that this is posted on a website that features a slew of "dating experts" such as "Doc Love" and "David Deangelo" who constantly advise men not to be "wussies".

  11. Alan Vaughn

    Actually Highwayman, when you think about it a bit, those types: wussy, feminist boot-licking and arse-hole crawling white-knights and manginas like them, are our REAL enemies...
    Without them, there probably wouldn't be a feminist culture.

  12. theantifeminist

    Post author

    I often think a free sexual market is incompatible with the information Society. In the days of the steamboats people in England didn’t give a damn about prostitutes in the Philippines or anywhere in the Empire. They were just a source of anecdotes for returning sailors or diplomats. Now the sheeple watches the media and gets in a sweat over legs spreading at the antipodes

    Good point, however, I honestly think it's more a case of a closed sexual market being incompatible with the digitilized information society (as Sexual Trade Union Theory makes clear - feminists are simply playing 'catch up' in trying to close an ever more open sex market).

    Remember, this is about feminists (probably Western NGO groups) trying to stop men in America and Europe from being able to chat to and to fap off with naked young Asian women from the comfort of their own bedrooms. Actually, in this case, it's the anonymity and breakdown of geographical distance and boundaries that the internet affords that has provoked the STU into action (and in my opinion, triggered the third wave of feminism).

    Stopping 16 year old cam girls from flaunting themselves on 55" super HD television screens 5 years down the road was one of the explicit motivations behind the recent draconian new EU directive on 'child protection'.

    Sexual Trade Union theory contains the happy prediction that while for the next couple of decades or so legislation against male sexuality will increase (corresponding to the acceleration of anonymous and realistic virtual sex technology), at some point the new tech will start to benefit women or simply become so vast and omnipresent that the STU understands that there is no point fighting it anymore.

    This new law is troublesome because it is an indication that the STU are able to enact pre-emptive and far-reaching legislation against virtual sex.

  13. theantifeminist

    Post author

    Actually Highwayman, when you think about it a bit, those types: wussy, feminist boot-licking and arse-hole crawling white-knights and manginas like them, are our REAL enemies…
    Without them, there probably wouldn’t be a feminist culture.

    They are certainly the most despicable of our enemies, and no doubt feminism derives a lot of its strength from the support of such treacherous men. Unfortunately, it's more likely that feminism is raping men because doing so protects the primal sexual interests of 95% of the female population in a secular free sexual market.

  14. Eric

    Highwayman:
    I only got through the first page of that article before I wanted to vomit! But his Number 1 reason proves what I wrote above: the assumption that any man going to SE Asia for any reason is automatically suspect.

    That's how badly the feminised media here has prejudiced the public mind.

    In spite of all that, though, the 2010 US Census showed that fully 1/4 married Asian-born women have an American-born husband! My intutition tells me that there's a strong relationship between that census data and the recent increase in media bigotry and government bullying.

  15. theantifeminist

    Post author

    he and his partner in crime JTO

    @Alan I understand why you dislike Paul Elam, but as far as I know, JTO is one of the few prominant MRAs who are actually pro-pornography and who repeatedly raises the issue of feminists attacking male sexuality.

  16. jack

    Here we have a “relationship correspondent” telling men to bow down to sexual trade union social pressure

    I wonder if he was really being a mangina or if there is some double entendre. I've sent in a comment to ask him to clarify. Regarding the AvFm controversy, one poster sort of came to my rescue by taking the contrarian stand that age-of-consent laws are a legit MRA issue. All the same, my posts on that forum never got upvoted much and it's time I resigned myself to the fact that our issues are not popular there.

  17. Eric

    Alan:
    Exactly.

    I think that this is a topic that really needs further exploration. There's a definite dynamic going on here with these white knights acting as enforcers for the STU. I suspect that these fools believe that, by turning on other men, it will gain them sexual status with their feminist leaders. It was really clear from watching that AVfM video of Vancouver that the male feminists seemed to be in competition with each other over which could impress their femihag cheerleaders the most.

    Try watching that video clip with the audio turned off and you can see what I'm describing clearly.

  18. Alan Vaughn

    antifeminist,
    Yes I know... I didn't only mention Paul and John The Other. I also used the term 'and their avid followers'...
    Meaning almost everyone who follows AVfM.

    And I still insist that it is becoming more and more of an 'mRA' blog every day...

    I have nothing personal against Paul Elam or JTO, (they do great work otherwise) nor for that matter: the mRA's there that insist on upholding feminist AofC and paedohysterical laws; I am merely stating (as you did yourself) that it is not very helpful to the MRM to do that. However, I also don't like the utter contempt (total ignorance actually) that a few of them treated at our old friend Jack with...

  19. theantifeminist

    Post author

    And that's exactly why I run this site - with all its manifold legal and other personal risks to myself, as well as the thousands of pounds in lost earnings for working on this site, sorting through hundreds of viagra spam comments etc, when I should really be devoting myself to my business, the inability to even search for porn anymore given that I'm likely being monitored and the risks of stumbling inadvertantly across anything illegal is too great..

    The best answer to Paul Elam would not be to goad him into making good his former pledge to rid the MRM of anyone who discusses age of consent issues (I'm pretty certain that if he decided to give Human-Stupidity and myself the Jay Hammers treatment, HS would take his site offline within a week, just like Jay did, and I can't say that I'd last any longer).

    The best answer is to support this site (and HS's), link to this site at as many mra blogs as possible, as well as in comments at sites and forums elsewhere. The best answer is to show him that there is an alternative position that recognises that all feminist laws that criminalize men are valid men's rights issues and that this viewpoint is gaining traction within the MRM (and clearly without damaging the MRM).

    Paul Elam has evidently modified his position somewhat since the Jay Hammers fiasco. He more or less explicitly recognised in that comment that other men's rights sites are free to discuss these issues (and that we may even be right). At the end of the day, site owners take the rap when an fbi agent decides that a particular comment is illegal or crosses the line, and site owners have the last word in deciding what content is acceptable on their sites. And bear in mind that Paul Elam is very much a publiclly identifiable figure now. Bear in mind also with regards to W.F.Price that he has moved from denouncing anyone who defends men who support the right to 'have sex with little girls' (i.e.15 year olds) to attacking anti-paedo vigilantes who pose as 15 year old girls to trap lonely men (he was also the only MRA who defended Eivind Berge apart from myself).

  20. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    "...the inability to even to search for porn any more given that I'm likely being monitored..."

    I used to worry about this too. But then, I figured that if ever ran into problems with the elites: what's the first thing they're going to accuse me of doing anyway?

    Heck, even the nutjob who shot all those people in Colorado last month: no sooner had the police seized the shooter's computer than they announced immediately that he'd visited 'adult' websites. What that had to do with the premeditated murder of a dozen or so people, they never explained. I remember too that Hillary was quite exuberant over the fact that 'material of a sexual nature' was discovered among the late Col. Qaddafi's personal effects. Oh well, I guess we had to have SOME justification for invading Libya...

    So, I suppose the moral of these stories is that you might as well do something that you actually enjoy, because that's preferrable to hearing false accusations about things you WISHED you had done LOL

  21. jack

    To be fair AVFM is the only MRA site that has managed so far to place MRA activism on the map. I sent them 100 dollars myself for their "men's rights are human rights campaing" in Canada because I think what they've been doing there is great. But it should be clear by now that the "mens's human rights" they fight for do not include the rights that we see being taken away from us here right before our eyes. What we should do is promote our own agenda. Activism should not be the sole preserve of AVFM. I've peddled AVFM leaflets in my own corner of the woods whenever I've traveled. There's nothing like placing a few leaflets to while away the time in airport lounges, train stations and motorway rest stops. I've written a simple printable A4 pamphlet as a shared google doc that says "Feminism is a hate movement / http://www.theantifeminist.com". I'm not including the google doc link in this message because then the spam folder will trash the whole message. I'll send the link in a separate post with the request to @theantifeminist to rescue it from the spam folder and repost it if he deems it appropriate. We must attract more people!

  22. Alan Vaughn

    Well ok, I wrote that reply in a hurry and quoted what I thought I said off the top of my head, I admit I said exactly:
    "many of his avid mRA followers have said there"...

    It wasn't Paul, JTO, or any particular individual I was taking to task.

    And YES, I acknowledge that Welmer was indeed the only MRA outside of here who expressed any support or sympathy towards Eivind Berge (Arpagus at The Spearhead).
    By contrast AVfM didn't even mention his name.

    I also note that you removed the link I put at the bottom of my comment to Fattroll's blog...

  23. Alan Vaughn

    Jack the link to this site is:
    http://theantifeminist.com
    (without 'www') Not that it matters, the link you gave wiill still work anyway, as all web browsers in use now automatically find the nearest match.
    I also donated to both AVfM and The Spearhead, when I used to regularly comment there myself.

    That reminds me, you might find this an interesting read. Keep reading the thread until you reach the comment:
    ThoughtCriminal in reply to Alan Vaughn.
    You will notice that my comments are the only ones there that (albeit very carefully) mock A of C laws and paedohysteria, but not forgetting which blog I was posting my comments to: treaded very carefully in what I sensed to be equivalent to a floor of broken glass or even a mine field...

  24. inclinedreader

    Heck, even the nutjob who shot all those people in Colorado last month: no sooner had the police seized the shooter’s computer than they announced immediately that he’d visited ‘adult’ websites. What that had to do with the premeditated murder of a dozen or so people, they never explained. I remember too that Hillary was quite exuberant over the fact that ‘material of a sexual nature’ was discovered among the late Col. Qaddafi’s personal effects.

    and that's how they manage to frame any sexual content at all as somehow devious and corrupting the morals of society. By deliberately getting a few things backwards and blaming pornography for whatever a violent or even a strictly non-violent offender does.

    For example, I read somewhere on the Internet that some low-level police official who mainly handles sex crime cases has said that they have found pornography in almost every sex offender's home that he has ever dealt with. Well, but what about the 99 or-so percent of the population who indulge in porn in the privacy of their own four walls, but never ever for as long as they live commit anything that's even remotely a sex crime?

    It makes about as much sense as the observation that, say, 70 percent of all hit and run perpetrators were drunk behind the wheel, and thus claiming that any and all alcohol comsumption, however modest, inevitably leads to hit and runs.

  25. Deano

    If they're so concerned for the welfare of young girls then you would assume they'd be mounting huge campaigns to prevent female genital mutilation as practiced by some Muslim families. But do we hear any such concerns from these hatchet-faced shrieking horror movie extras? Not a peep.

    An attractive young girl drawing male attention via a web cam represents competition. TOUGH competition. A girl having her clitoris sliced out with a razor blade represents the permanent disabling of possible future competition.

    The amount of energy poured into preventing young women showing themselves off verses the total lack of interest in preventing horrific mutilation of even younger girls exposes the true nature behind modern feminism.

    They are plain creepy.

  26. jack

    . .. the only MRA outside of here who expressed any support or sympathy towards Eivind Berge ... By contrast AVfM didn’t even mention his name.

    Was it only because Eivind Berge had broken the pact of non violence? Or rather because his was not a divorce/custody battle. Eivind Berge himself was right all along: family-centered MRAs have no problem with non violent male sex offenders being locked up for years, as long as a comparable number of women get locked up for the same crimes. On closer scrutiny their fight against feminism resembles a bitch fight over resource. I'll give you the name of the resource: "children". Hence also the rhetoric about "boys". The longer children remain children, the higher the resource retains it value. That's one point they tacitely agree on with the fems, so that if and when they reconquer the resource from the fems, it will be as valuable as ever.

  27. Eric

    Deano:
    Another thing that's especially sick about Hillary & other feminist government officials doing this, is that they're just as aggresive at promoting legalised abortion and discouraging 'early marriage' in other countries. It's like they not only want to keep foreign women out of our hands, they want to reduce their numbers for the future as well.

  28. Eric

    Inclinedreader:
    Not only that, but I have a feeling some of these stories are fake anyway. I think some of these police officials are told to tell this stuff to the media whether they actually find anything or not.

    One of the suspects in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing was married to a Filipina and the media made that out to be worse than the bomb-attack. If I remember right, Senator Boxer cited that several times when she introduced VAWA in to legislation.

  29. theantifeminist

    Post author

    I also note that you removed the link I put at the bottom of my comment to Fattroll’s blog…

    I've said here several times that I will never link to a site (and give Google Page Rank) that has accused myself and my readers of paedophiles (from a creature that is himself a self-admitted 'former' paedophile), and who is trying to strangle the men's rights movement, as well as have any criticism of age of consent laws made illegal.

    And yes, I'll close down this site before I allow it to hold hands with Fraudtrelle and mock good MRAs like John the Other who are actually trying to turn the MRM into a real world activist movement (btw, I'm pretty sure JTO hasn't the slightest influence on AVfM editorial policy regarding comments).

  30. theantifeminist

    Post author

    On closer scrutiny their fight against feminism resembles a bitch fight over resource. I’ll give you the name of the resource: “children”

    Excellent point Jack.

    The thing I find most sick about traditionalist MRAs pretending that 17 year old boys are going to be damaged by sex with an older partner, is we know it's really about fathers wishing to preserve the virginity (and 'resource' value) of their teenage daughters. So they demand that teenage boys are fucked up for life for dumping their cum inside an older women and claim it's fighting the 'double standards', or 'taking the abuse of boys seriously', when really it's just a means of tacitly approving feminist statutory rape laws using the language of men's rights - laws that are designed to keep young girls (their privileged princess daughters) out of the sexual market.

  31. Eric

    Alan:
    That was an interesting comment exchange. How do these guys ever figure that anyone under 18 is incapable of consent? I brought this up elsewhere once about the Colorado shooting. Since the Obamanogs consider childhood to the age of 26 (and Obama himself actually referred to the shooter as a child); then why don't try him as a juvenile?

    As for Thought Criminal's comment: I think that paedohysteria is so deeply engrained in our culture that opinions like his are just like a reflex. Probably, until he read your reply, he'd never even thought about it.

    I think that's true with a lot of people. Most people, except for a few fanatics, would start turning against paedohysteria if they actually got to hear a counter-argument. But the unofficial censorship in the Anglosphere smothers any dissent. Could you imagine what would happen if magazines and websites aimed at teen & twenty- something starting writing about the benefits of a mature husband and how cool 'older' guys were, and how younger women were better off with such men? You could start measuring feminism's lifespan with an hourglass!

  32. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    On a lighter note about Futrelle, he made himself a laughing-stock today. He quotemined some fringe blog about not sending girls to school. Then he posted a turn-of-the-century photo of a women's classroom. He didn't even notice it was a photo of a Home Economics class! LOLLLL

  33. theantifeminist

    Post author

    @Eric : Classic!

    Fraudtrelle's probably as ignorant of early feminist history as most MRAs are.

    BTW, I've posted a longer version of the recent article on the suffragettes and sexual morality at : http://historyoffeminism.com/votes-for-women-sexual-morality/

    I added a couple more extracts from the book relating to the repeal of the Contagious Diseases Act and the Criminal Amendments Act that raised the age of consent from 13 to 16 in the UK. It's noteable that the raising of the age of consent in the UK and most states of the USA a century ago was dependent on the premise that pre-marital sex was wrong. Yet today in our society of slut walkers and legal abortion, MRAs join hands with feminists in pretending that 15 or even 17 year old girls are 'exploited' for having (unmarried) sex with an older man.

  34. theantifeminist

    Post author

    Alan put his (and our) case elequently, and to be fair, he was upvoted many times and I didn't see a single downvote (admittedly, walking on eggshells).

  35. theantifeminist

    Post author

    @Jack

    What we should do is promote our own agenda.

    The thing is, we have to admit that we are in a minority, at least of rank and file men's rights supporters, in seeing these issues as being prominent (or even valid).

    Your previous quotes regarding the numbers of divorced American fathers, numbers of fathers paying child custody, alimony and so on, were very interesting, and it's hardly a surprise that they have formed the largest demographic of the MRM.

    But we still need to ask ourselves why aren't we attracting different demographics to our more sexually liberal branch of the MRM - given the war on male sexuality that feminists are clearly waging, and with ever greater ferocity?

    My article a couple of years back on the guy arrested in Sweden for owning Manga comics was posted by a reader into dozens of manga and anime forums (I discovered through looking at my stat counter). I got thousands of visitors from these forums as a result. Probably tens of thousands, if not millions of men, stand to be criminalized by that particular law alone. Yet I really doubt if more than a handful of those anime fans became regular readers of my site, let alone became 'men's rights supporters'. I also followed a couple of the links that appeared in my statcounter to some of those forum threads. I learned that anime fans are amongst the biggest white knights on the internet. It's also been my experience that men who admit to having a preference for teenage girls are similarly very much white knights and supporters of feminism, even if explained to them that it is feminists who have criminalized them.

    If 'ephebophilia' exists (and I haven't made up my mind yet whether it does) then ephebophiles would surely be a prime demographic that would be as desperate to destroy feminism perhaps as a divorced father is whose had his kids taken from him. But the few I've happened to come across online certainly 1/ don't give the impression that they could even see feminists as the enemy and 2/ are generally so pathetic, spineless, and useless that we wouldn't particularly want them on our side. There is one exception of course - one reader here does believe that ephebophilia is real and is not afraid of that label.

    I just wonder if 'our demographic' - the type of man who loves porn, who thinks there is nothing shameful about sex, who admits that teenage girls are a work of divine art - are, sadly, more inclined to white knightism and 'princess pedalisation' than even the average man? As we know, the feminist belief that porn leads to violence against women is a complete fabrication. In fact, the biggest porn consumers are those who idealise the feminine and are in thrall to female beauty.

  36. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    In fact, it wasn't even downvoted by the man Alan replied to; and that alone speaks volumes.

    My suspicion is that many of these Fathers' Rights MRAs are only reacting in the way that the paedohysterical culture has taught them to react---like a reflex. Once they actually hear the truth, they start thinking about it and even change their minds (like you pointed out how Welmer's position had evolved on the subject).

    If people want to post on those types of blogs, they should bear in mind that they're speaking to audience who's largely been disinformed about AOC laws and haven't taken (to use their own terminology) the 'red pill' on the subject. My point was that's better not to take an aggressive approach to these types of MRAs because many can be won simply by hearing the facts well-presented.

    As wise old Ben Franklin said: 'You can catch more bees with a spoonful of honey than with a gallon of vinegar.'

  37. theantifeminist

    Post author

    Very wise words Eric.

    I think we need to take the drip drip approach. It won't happen overnight. In the meantime, it's important that the men's rights movement makes this transition from an online community into a real world political protest movement (I'm not belittling online activism of course, it has an essential role, but even Anonymous have crossed over into real world protests - if only to demonstrate that they are not just a handful of teenage geeks living in their mother's basements).

  38. Alex

    This is all about cutting off another branch from the tree of sexual freedom, so to speak. It's about reducing options to 1. Marry a modern feminist, become a slave, shut your mouth and obey her, until she thinks she can find a better deal and divorce rapes you.

    If feminists had their way, there would be no sexual outlets for men of which they do not approve and clearly their lobby and their henpecked manginas are moving on all fronts, foreign and domestic.

  39. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    Yeah, Fraudtrelle probably saw the big word 'electromagnetism' written on the blackboard and assumed these ladies were studying advanced physics. If he'd looked closer, he'd have seen that they were learning how to use electrolysis to clean silverware!

    That's how female empowerment through education is supposed to work.

    Interesting link too BTW. I wonder if this trend towards combining social conservatism with radical feminism is the way feminism as movement is going?

  40. Alan Vaughn

    @Eric and theantifeminist
    Eric you said:

    If people want to post on those types of blogs, they should bear in mind that they’re speaking to audience who’s largely been disinformed about AOC laws and haven’t taken (to use their own terminology) the ‘red pill’ on the subject. My point was that’s better not to take an aggressive approach to these types of MRAs because many can be won simply by hearing the facts well-presented.

    That was exactly my point when I said yesterday about how I treaded very carefully in what I sensed to be equivalent to a floor of broken glass or even a mine field...

    I was actually trying to use that post as a sort of 'soapbox' in an attempt (probably futile) to get them all to 'see the timber in the trees' of the feminist dogma they probably don't even realise they are all upholding.
    I was even starting to feel I'd made at least some progress (a few upvotes but no downvotes), as a couple of supporting comments appeared in replies to mine.

    However, my hopes were totally dashed when in the same week, this classic AVfM discourse unfolded. I felt like chipping in there in sympathy with 'JdL', but thought: 'WTF's the use? The feminists have got them right where they want them and they don't even know it'. The feminist mantra on 'protecting children' permanently etched into their psyche's like an ugly old tattoo...
    I gave up after that and just left it at whinging about it here (on this blog).

    This all happened while you were away on holiday Schop.

  41. Eric

    Alan:
    I remember that infamous dialogue. I haven't commented much on AVfM because I don't read it that often, except where there's links to articles.

    However, you might this amusing. There's a photo posted today of what 'Airthor' really looks like at
    http://www.counterfem.blogspot.com

    Quite different from his AVfM avatar...LOL I think just looking at the picture and recalling his defense of paedohysteria sums it up...

  42. Alan Vaughn

    Eric,

    Quite different from his AVfM avatar…LOL I think just looking at the picture and recalling his defense of paedohysteria sums it up…

    Indeed, VERY different actually.
    Ironically, he looks more like Fattroll with long hair and a longer beard!
    And at least on certain topics: mimics the same paedocritical mindset too.

  43. Eric

    Alan:
    Yeah--- It's probably fairly easy for a guy who looks like that to complain about other men's interests in younger women. I doubt very seriously that he gathers too much attention from females generally lol

  44. theantifeminist

    Post author

    quoted from 'Aoirthoir' :

    The reason we hold that sexually “mature” children should not be raped, er sorry, “have sex” with adults, is that the adult can easily manipulate the child, who understands little of the consequences of the sex act. This is especially true of boys where the consequences can be so serious.

    Right here in Ohio, a BOY of 14 was RAPED by a 19 year old female RAPIST.

    What a prick. Almost certainly a paedocrite judging from that Facebook pic.

    The guy is probably a virgin too, so I'm not sure how he knows about all of these mysterious 'consequences of the sex act'.

    In my honest opinion, people who seriously hold and promote the view that teenagers having willing sex with other teenagers is or can be rape, should be skinned alive, chopped up, and then fed to sharks. Through due legal process of course.

    He actually states that adults having sex with 17 year olds is rape. This is legally so in only a handful of nations outside of the USA (usually Third World muslim states where most girls are married by 18).

    I wonder why it is permitted to argue that the age of consent should be raised (and tens of thousands of men and boys criminalized) and yet to argue that it should be lowered (and tens of thousands of men and boys de-criminalized) is taboo?

    The guy sounds like a complete fruitcake. Read his comments here : http://loveashley.net/2012/04/02/indonesian-politicians-call-for-mini-skirts-ban-for-provoking-rape/

  45. theantifeminist

    Post author

    Yeah— It’s probably fairly easy for a guy who looks like that to complain about other men’s interests in younger women. I doubt very seriously that he gathers too much attention from females generally lol

    Unless he pays for it...or at least pays jailbait looking girls $5 to pretend to be his girlfriend on facebook and the like :

    http://fiverr.com/aoirthoir/collections/online-girlfriends

  46. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    Aside from his jailbait collection, did you happen to check out his gallery of fellow 'manly men' on the same link?

    I'll withhold comment, the pictures speak for themselves...

  47. Eric

    Re: the Indonesia article,

    'Three churches have converted to Masculinism'

    What he is even talking about? He left three out of the four comments on that thread, I couldn't make any sense out of anything he said.

  48. Alan Vaughn

    theantifeminist

    Unless he pays for it…or at least pays jailbait looking girls $5 to pretend to be his girlfriend on facebook and the like :

    Paedocrite for sure.
    Are you sure he ISN'T David Fattroll with a wig and stick-on beard?

    Yet over at AVfM, he's one of their highly esteemed and respected guests...
    As I said about the disgusting attack he launched on 'JdL' at the time (who would be most welcome here of course): I'll say again now: are commentators who make statements like that and argue the ridiculous 'It IS rape, because 17 year olds are too immature to give their consent' feminist diatribe, really MRA's?

  49. theantifeminist

    Post author

    ‘Three churches have converted to Masculinism’

    What he is even talking about? He left three out of the four comments on that thread, I couldn’t make any sense out of anything he said.

    Sounds like he inhabits a complete fantasy world. I stand corrected if I'm wrong, but unless he's provided proof of this, then together with the fact that he's paying (and humiliating both them and himself) what appear to be teenagers (or young women posing as jailbait teens) five measly dollars to pose as his facebook girlfriend, whilst claiming repeatedly that jailing 19 year old boys as child rapists for having sex with 17 year old sluts is 'men's rights', then I really think it needs to be considered if this is the type of guy we need in the MRM. Imagine the damage it would do if and when this guy gets busted? Particularly to the American conservative anti-sex father's rights branch of the MRM.

    I see he claims that women couldn't keep their hands off his cock from the age of 9. Oh yea, I heard David Futrelle lost his virginity at 12 as well. If you count jerking off to his mother's lingerie catalogue that is.

  50. theantifeminist

    Post author

    Antifeminist:
    Aside from his jailbait collection, did you happen to check out his gallery of fellow ‘manly men’ on the same link?

    I was too busy checking out 'alliemadison12's video : http://fiverr.com/alliemadison12

    I don't know if I prefer her or 'Cherry Pop' : http://fiverr.com/cherry_pop

    BTW, I didn't discover this through hours of trawling - just Google 'aoirthoir'. I wouldn't be surprised there's worse to discover, but I didn't get past the first page - the human mind can only take so much nauseating hypocrisy (or rather paedocrisy) in one day.

    I remember when Paul Elam put up his video attacking Jay Hammers ('Killing the Cause'). One of the most outspoken 'men's rights' commentators was screeching that all under 18's are children and that Jay Hammers was a paedophile who should be drummed out of the movement. I clicked on this guy's profile, and as you'd expect, his friend list was full of jailbait teens.

  51. theantifeminist

    Post author

    He's definately going to be a frontrunner in the forthcoming 'world's biggst paedocrite' contest.

    are commentators who make statements like that and argue the ridiculous ‘It IS rape, because 17 year olds are too immature to give their consent’ feminist diatribe, really MRA’s?

    Even in Europe, which is basically run by radical feminists now, we don't legally define or describe men who have underage sex with teens to be 'child rapists'.

    For example, the NSPCC fairly recently forced the EU to introduce a directive requiring member states to make adults having sex with children below a certain age 'rape' whether the 'victim' was willing or not, and it was rather controversial at the time even in the UK. In the UK they set it at 13, I believe in Germany it is 14. Only in Malta is even the age of consent now higher than 16. Angry Harry has written an article denouncing this abuse of language, which leads to teenage boys being charged with 'child rape' for having sex with willing teenage girls.

    So these 'MRAs' go further than radical paedohysteric feminists - or at least further than what those feminists have managed to thus far achieve.

  52. Jack

    In the same line, Barbarossaaa suggested in one of his Youtube videos that the Irak was, among other things, a feminist war against a non-feminist stronghold. Much as I dislike the Mullahs and religion in general, I cannot help thinking these wars (Irak, Afghanistan, Lybia, next Iran) indeed follow a feminist trail.

  53. A very interesting twist of Age of Consent is that if teenagers cannot consent due to adult pressure, young Muslim women cannot consent to wear hijab, or head scarves, because of the threat of tournante, or gang rape.

  54. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    Admittedly, Allie Madison caught my attention too, although it would be a toss-up between her and Dannister.

    It's depressing, though, to realize that the only American women who look like that are slutting around online and probably think they're too good for any decent man...blah.

  55. Eric

    Alan:
    'Are you sure he isn't David Fatroll with a wig and stick-on beard?'

    It is uncanny how all these male feminists and paedocrites all seem to look and behave alike. I'm certain there's a thesis here for a psychology student (but of course it would never get published).

    I doubt that he's Fatroll since Davey already has a collection of female groupies doing 'meet-ups', and wouldn't need to be shelling out five bucks for the virtual stuff.

  56. Eric

    Maybe the next time Aoirthur starts in on one of his paedohysterical rampages, someone should post a link to his webpage and watch the Fathers' Rights guys go ballistic on him.

    The other link on the page had a gallery of his fellow 'masculinists' advertising various services for 5 dollars (a real enterprenuerial bunch LOL). Those guys look like the same guys who would tear down posters for the Femistasi in Vancouver!

  57. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    LOL, nothing like a little civil disobedience thrown into the mix! Maybe this was part of his missionary endeavors to Indonesia, trying to look like a Buddhist priest or something.

    On a more serious note: I wonder how much of this is 'posturing'? The same way Futrelle poses as a pro-feminist to divert attention away from his own 'indrescretions', maybe this guy's trying to suck up to the Fathers' Rights MRAs so that nobody thinks to peer behind the curtain at his other activities.

  58. Alan Vaughn

    theantifeminist

    So you think this was all in vain, LOL :

    Well now that you and Eric have followed up my otherwise typical AVfM story and opened up a huge can of worms: no not at all!
    However, it isn't really too surprising (I was too disappointed or 'deflated' at the time to even think of going any further because he was and still IS regarded by all those mRAs there as some sort of men's right's super hero).
    Also when somebody makes a comment like this:

    Fuck off JDL. It IS rape when someone is forced to have sex against their will, or when they are incapable of consenting. A child is incapable of consent.

    It does not cheapen the word rape to call an act of rape, rape. Go fuck yourself and the rock crawled out from under.

    It speaks volumes to me that he has something to hide.
    As soon as I saw his first retort to JdL the first thought that entered my mind was: 'what a f...ing paedocrite!'
    What made me feel even more hopeless was all the upvotes Aoirthoir was awarded and JdL TOTALLY downvoted, except the single upvote he received from Yours Truly.

    I also chipped in with a very tactfully worded comment, but then realized it just couldn't be done, no matter how 'softly-softly' I approach them, thus abandoned the idea of trying to help them 'see the light'.
    Instead, I just came back here and whined about these mRA's and hoped you'd be back from your holiday soon!

  59. Alan Vaughn

    Eric,

    Those guys look like the same guys who would tear down posters for the Femistasi in Vancouver!

    And that's probably one of the services they provide for 5 bucks. Per DAY, but the real reward they earn would be the privilege of getting to have sex with some fat, ugly Canadian femihag cougar, but only if they tear down a minimum of 1000 posters...

  60. Eric

    Alan:
    Looks like my earlier post about the video fell victim to the spam folder...oh well.

    To restate it a little: I'm wondering if this guy isn't sucking up to the Fathers' Rights MRAs to divert attention from what he's really doing behind the scenes...much like Futrelle's pro-feminism keeps the femihags from investigating him too closely.

  61. theantifeminist

    Post author

    LOL, nothing like a little civil disobedience thrown into the mix! Maybe this was part of his missionary endeavors to Indonesia, trying to look like a Buddhist priest or something.

    On a more serious note: I wonder how much of this is ‘posturing’? The same way Futrelle poses as a pro-feminist to divert attention away from his own ‘indrescretions’, maybe this guy’s trying to suck up to the Fathers’ Rights MRAs so that nobody thinks to peer behind the curtain at his other activities.

    It's classic paedocrite behaviour alright.

    From what I gather, the guy certainly isn't a father. I doubt if he's ever had sex with a woman.

    Posing as an anti-sex 'masculinist' missionary would also provide a good cover for a sex tourist.

    Not sure what the hell adopting feminist abuse victim culture has to do with 'masculinism' anyway. It was habitual for Ancient Greek males to be taken up the ass as boys by older men, this didn't stop Alexander the Great from conquering half the world by the age of 25, or 300 Spartans standing firm against half a million Persians and saving Western civilisation. Not to mention inventing science, philosophy, theater, democracy etc etc I'm not belittling the double standard or condoing the sexual abuse of boys, but I know that adopting feminist myths - such as that unwanted (or even wanted) touching by an adult as a young teen will 'destroy you for life' - has fuck all to do with men's rights.

    As their name suggests (masculinists) these mangina creeps want to turn the MRM into 'feminism for males'. Feminism is about protecting the sexual interests of older women in a free sexual market. Aping feminism, and adopting feminist values, has no rewards for men, and will simply lead to the criminalization and demonization of more and more men and unnecessary harm for boys.

    EDIT: As Highwayman has pointed out, mirroring the sexual trade unionism and fake sex abuse victim culture of feminism might have (sexual) value for ugly beta males such as you know who - or at least they may believe that it does.

  62. Jack

    I think this guy is playing several games at once. I remember some of his posts in AVFM as relaxed and playful, others as kowtowing to the party line (eg in an exchange about age-of-consent where Alan was involved if I remember right). In the following youtube video he sets up AVFM as an example of a non exclusionary MRA site:

    http://www.youtube.com/all_comments?threaded=1&v=yHtR3RTW6Fg

    When pressed on this by a commentator he remains cleverly non committal:

    Commentator: "You really think AVFM? is a good example of a non exclusionary MRA platform? Uhm ...."

    Aoirthoir An Broc: "Do I??"

  63. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    Not only that, but it was also customary in ancient times for fathers to take their young sons to prostitutes. The fathers considered this to be a necessary part of the sons' educational experience. In Rome, there were prostitutes who specialized in 'breaking in' younger men. The Romans don't seem like a race of men who were carrying around a lot of emotional baggage, somehow.

    That's a good point about the missionary stuff being a cover. Isn't there a lot more feminism to fight here than in the Phillippines? He was bragging in the Indonesia article about setting up a DV shelter for men over there. I haven't heard of any epidemic of abused Filipino males---unless they're counting going INCEL with all the female expats.

  64. You're dog meat Brady

    They started using the term "population bomb" around the the early '70s. I'ts a pretty military notion when you think of it-likening people to bombs. OK, they're being considered as an aggregate and not as individuals, but still.
    I hate abortion. I don't know whether outlawing it does any good or not because outlawing things mostly only seems to make the problem worse, but yeah, it is pretty rich for Clinton to be promoting killing one group of females while supposedly protecting others.
    As far as this Philipino thing goes, it's a seen-to-be-doing-something exercise by people who I'm sure are far sleazier than most of the webcam customers.
    BTW I'm going to put an open letter to ECPAT as a comment on this blog when a relevant article gives me the opportunity to.
    Don't worry, it won't be too long.

  65. Alan Vaughn

    Eric

    That’s a good point about the missionary stuff being a cover. Isn’t there a lot more feminism to fight here than in the Phillippines? He was bragging in the Indonesia article about setting up a DV shelter for men over there. I haven’t heard of any epidemic of abused Filipino males—unless they’re counting going INCEL with all the female expats.

    This story is just getting more and more incredible almost by the hour!
    You're right about what you said about the presence of any abuse of Filipino men too. Unless he considers some typically lazy chronically unemployed bludger being yelled at by his wife or mother, or father or anyone to: 'get off your arse and do something to help yourself and your family, you lazy sack of shit', is abuse or DV?
    Be rest assured, there is no threat to any man there from Feminism!
    At least not yet...
    Some Filipino girls who completed their education in US, UK and Australian universities (yes they completed their degrees in 'gender studies'), returned to the Philippines and tried to convince their local women to become involved in feminsm...
    They were practically kicked out of town and told to return to those western democracies where they belong!
    The local Filipino women were not interested in any ideologies that practice such hatred and the teachings were widely rejected by most of them...
    Apparently these academics try it almost on an annual basis and all end up returning to the feminist police states from whence they came...

  66. The Highwayman

    QUOTE: "one reader here does believe that ephebophilia is real and is not afraid of that label."

    LOL! I assume you are talking about me.

    QUOTE: "ephebophiles would surely be a prime demographic that would be as desperate to destroy feminism"

    Unfortunately Ephebophiles do not have the same incentives to activism as other sexual minorities do such as homosexuals. The reason being that most ephebophiles have AT LEAST SOME degree of attraction to adult females thus many ephebophiles may focus exclusively on trying to find an adult female with characteristics that he likes (youthful appearance, gracile physique, emotional softness..etc) and neglect making any effort to challenge the legal and cultural barriers that prevent them from pursuing the females that they most desire.

    Also unlike homosexuals who could engage in acticism hand in hand with those they love counterpart to ephebophiles would be "adult attracted minors" i.e. teenagers with a strong sexual preference for adult males...there is no real incentive for AAMs to engage in activism at all since thier condition (being unable to form relationships with older males due to legal and cultural barriers) is only a temporary one and as soon as they hit "magic age" they begin to BENEFIT from those same legal and cultural barriers as they shelter them from competition from younger women.

  67. The Highwayman

    QUOTE: "It’s also been my experience that men who admit to having a preference for teenage girls are similarly very much white knights and supporters of feminism, even if explained to them that it is feminists who have criminalized them."

    I does not surprise me that many ephebophiles would be like this and this is unfortunate. The preference that SOME ephebophiles may have for adolescent girls may be rooted in an attraction to vulnerability in females (teen girls have more gracile physiques and are generally softer emotionally) and the desire to protect vulnerable females....hence the White Knightism. In other situations this White Knightism might be well....less than genuine...a sort of an attempt to gain acceptance for their preference by trying to outdo other males in knowtowing to feminist/femiservative demands. Lord knows males love to throw each under under a bus to gain female acceptance and many males are perfectly willing to throw ephebophiles under a bus to please feminists/femiservatives, its no surprise then that some ephebophiles would resort to similar tactics. Please note that I DO NOT CONDONE these tactics in fact I find them revolting, giving a reason as to why some people do certain things is not the same thing as making an excuse for it. The White Knight tactics used by some ephebophiles are shameful as are the White Knight Tactics employed against them.

  68. Jack

    The word "ephebe" is awkward. I prefer the good old "teenage" and "teenager" because they are unobjectionable from a legal point of view. Teenagers are assumed to be of legal age unless otherwise stated. (Teenagers get drafted into war insofar as they are unlucky enough to have been born on the male side of the sexual curtain.) People squirm at the T word because they know they can't - as yet - turn it against you. That's why raising AOCs from 18 to 21 is such a noxious semantic shift even if it has become largely irrelevant in the West since the redefinition of rape.

    Yaveh has thus spoken: "Ye fatherly morons, you didn't want to draw a line in the sand. It was OK, wasn't it, for a woman to remain jailbait after she'd been menstruating for a decade? Your stupidity is rewarded. By now any any woman of any age can cry rape whenever she chooses and have you thrown into the same ass rape concentration camp you would land into if you'd bedded an 13 year-old. There!"

  69. The Highwayman

    QUOTE: "But the few I’ve happened to come across online certainly 1/ don’t give the impression that they could even see feminists as the enemy and 2/ are generally so pathetic, spineless, and useless that we wouldn’t particularly want them on our side."

    There is a fellow named "Gannon" whom you may or may not find interesting. He does not identify as an ephebophile but clearly has a strong preference for teenage girls and he is quite the anti-feminist. That being said his ideology differs quite a bit from ours: he believes that the feminist capaign against adult men having sex with teenage girls is rooted in a feminist "anti-family" campaign to ruin marriage (due to the fact that marriages between older men and young girls are more conducive to healthy marriages in Gannon's opinion) therefore he does not give as much weight to sexual trade union theory. Also he is not supportive of general youth emancipation like some of us are and is fine with disallowing older men to patron teenage prostitutes whereas some of us (including yours truly) believe that 16 and 17 year old girls should be allowed to work as sex care workers. Anyway here are some links:

    http://www.halfsigma.com/2008/01/crying-is-for-c.html

    http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/03/girls_who_lift_.html

    http://hitcoffee.net/index.php/file/2111

    http://akinokure.blogspot.ca/2008/03/at-what-age-are-females-at-their.html

    http://www.parapundit.com/archives/005272.html

    You will find Gannon's writings in the comments sections. I am really surprised that he has not made his way over to this site yet.

    Another person I would like to introduce everyone to is Dissident, a very prolific internet ephebophile activist (he prefers the term "hebephile"). You can read some of his excellent essays here:

    http://newgon.com/wiki/Category:Dissident%27s_essays

    Dissident argues against pedohysteria from a youth liberationist platform, he is a big fan of Dr. Robert Epstein (as are some of us) and he believes in giving teenagers more rights AND responsibilities as well ending all legal and cultural barriers against sexual relationships between adults and teenagers. Unfortunately Dissident does have some feminist tendencies (but he is no white knight, read his essay where he talks about predatory teenage girls who can milk older men), he also tends to place most of the blame for pedohysteria on the desire of the state to increase it's power and on the desire of parents to have as much control over thier kids as possible (and I agree that these ARE important factors), he does not give as much weight to sexual trade union theory as we do. I would like to point out that in comments that Dissident has left on web based discussions he has expressed his view that jealousy and a desire to be sheltered from competition is what motivates many women to oppose sexual relationships between older men and young girls. He is also somewhat critical towards feminism at times but he makes false distinctions between "bad" and "good" feminists (like many people do) and in his view it is only "victim feminists" that are the problem. I really wish he would find his way over here too maybe then he would give more weight to STU theory.

    Two other clourful characters whom unfortunately you are never likely to meet are Swedish Ephebophiles Cain and Nacho. Both of these guys took a 2 fisted stance in support of Ephebophilia on the english language forums of the swedish website "Flashback Forums". There was one debate in particular where Cain and Nacho took on a feminist and a white knight type and what transpired was IMHO a classic in ephebophilia apologetics...a masterful debate going on for pages and pages. Unfortunately the english language forums on flashback have been taken down.

  70. Alan Vaughn

    I just wonder if ‘our demographic’ – the type of man who loves porn, who thinks there is nothing shameful about sex, who admits that teenage girls are a work of divine art – are, sadly, more inclined to white knightism and ‘princess pedalisation’ than even the average man?

    Well I certainly fit with 'our demographic' like a glove, but I've also been vehemently opposed to feminism all my life and have never behaved in a manner that could be described as 'white-knightish'.
    What makes it all the more difficult though is our society and its embedded taboos. It's not only the fact that it is now in the firm grip of rampant paedohysteria, its also now a taboo to discuss things like pornography with anyone outside your family and many would be reluctant even to talk about it with them.

    I.e. I work at a place where 95% of the total workforce are men. All of us own at least one computer and all have fast internet access from our homes. Many of those men are divorced and live alone. We all know that we like to look at online porn and one of my colleagues even admitted to me once when we talking about the internet, that he only bought a computer so he could look at online porn.
    Apart from that isolated case: NOBODY talks about it, yet we all know that all but one of us* surfs the net for porn.
    *I stopped looking at porn when I started leaning of how men were going to prison for possessing so-called 'child-pornography', especially in Australia where it can mean almost anything that vaguely resembles anything that's under 18 years old!

    I think if average men weren't so candid about their sexuality generally, (no thanks to naming & shaming and other feminist indoctrinated beliefs / taboos), there would be a lot more of 'our demographic' here and in the MRM overall...

  71. theantifeminist

    Post author

    Good points Highwayman.

    Given all these reasons for the lack of activism, and the lack of willingness to fight or even identify as the enemy, feminism - do you not think that even acknowledging or using the term 'ephebophile' is probably more trouble than it's worth (in the context of this site and in a sexually positive men's rights movement in general)?

    I mean, we all agree that finding teenage girls sexually attractive is a normal part of male sexuality, and perhaps a majority of us would even state that, for example, (leaving aside social conditioning and other artificial factors) it is normal for a man to find a 16 year old girl more attractive than a 23 year old woman.

    So if ephebophilia does exist as a category apart from normal male sexuality, it only barely does so - and then only as a slightly 'heightened' or 'more focused' form of normal male sexuality (i.e. not in any way a perversion).

    So I'm still doubtful of its value, tactically speaking.

    It's most obvious use is in distinguishing the attraction towards pubescent teenagers from the perverted preference for pre-pubescent children (real paedophilia). But as the 'former' paedophile and sex predator David Futrelle understands when he mocks us, the average person won't 'split hairs' over any word ending in 'philia'.

    On the other hand, recognising the attraction towards teenagers as a specific category of human sexuality might have legal advantages. For example, the EU charter of human rights forbids discrimination based on sexuality (although that doesn't stop them persecuting paedophiles, including amongst them 'ephebophiles'). It might equally valid to argue that there is a better chance of legally defining the human right to find teenagers attractive as part of a normal male sexuality (and probably have a better chance of succeeding in the context of a powerful men's rights movement that could legally challenge feminist law making).

  72. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    One thing I've done personally when writing comments here and elsewhere is to refer to teenagers as women or ladies as opposed to 'girls' and also the same with men. I try to avoid use of the term adolescent, except in its clinical context.

    I've found that using those terms in that way are useful for reinforcing the message.

  73. Eric

    Jack:
    LOL---according to some authorities, Yahveh said just the opposite. Here's a quote you might find useful to cite when speaking to religious Socons on the subject:

    'At the age of thirteen and half years, having grown considerably for her age, our most charming Princess, our most pure Mary, had another abstractive vision of God...the Most High now made known to her, by commanding her to accept a husband for her protection and company. Mary had desired and resolved all her life not to have a husband...nevertheless at this command, the most prudent Virgin suspended her judgement'

    ---From 'The Mystical City of God' by St. Mary of Agreda

  74. Eric

    Alan:
    There DOES to be a growing field of highly suspicious circumstances wherever this guy goes. Could you imagine what Fraudtrelle would say if Paul Elam was making extended trips to SE Asia to promote 'fathers' rights' over there?

  75. Alan Vaughn

    Jack,
    And what Yaveh said is the very reason this should be men's rights issue number 1, but they are too stupid to see the timber for the trees so to speak and that's what I was tactfully trying to (begin to) impart to those 'fatherly morons' at AVfM.
    Human Stupidity was also trying to help them see the light as you were when you made a comment supporting him.

    However they'd much rather listen to and hero-worship total paedocrites such as Aoirthoir An Broc Pedarist Masculinist and at the same time dismiss the likes of us as sickos, paedos or perverts, simply for daring to question the validity of feminist Draconian and misandrist laws...

    LOL!

  76. Alan Vaughn

    Eric,
    You asked:

    Could you imagine what Fraudtrelle would say if Paul Elam was making extended trips to SE Asia to promote ‘fathers’ rights’ over there?

    If FraudTROLL dug a little deeper than his usual cheap MRA blog trolling / quote-mining tactics, he probably would have dug up all the dirt on this despicable 'Aoirthoir' paedocrite extraordinaire and many others like him, as you and theantifeminist did and so easily too!

  77. theantifeminist

    Post author

    @Highwayman Thanks for the links, I'll look forward to reading (and studying) Gannon's articles in particular.

    BTW, please don't think I'm suggesting a 'comments guideline' or editorial policy' regarding the term 'ephebophilia'. I did promise a long time ago to write an article discussing whether ephebophilia was real and seperate to normal male sexuality, and whether it was tactically a good move to treat it as real even if it is.

    @Eric

    I think the choice as to whether to describe nubile female teenagers as 'women' or 'girls' is a bit of a double edged sword. You could also argue that it re-affirms the feminist dogma that only women are sexually attractive (with it being understood that teens are mere 'girls'). I feel awkard in my personal life even referring to a legally aged 'girl' in a sexual context now - which is absurd. And when I do use the term 'girl', I have a feeling that I'm re-claiming it from feminists.

  78. theantifeminist

    Post author

    @Alan

    Fraudtrelle probably has no problem with paedocrite MRAs. I'm sure he has a sense of brotherhood with them!

  79. Eric

    Alan & Antifeminist:
    More likely, Fraudtrelle doesn't want to expose MRM paedrocrites for fear that they'll retaliate by exposing him.

    I can see the dynamics of this a lot more clearly now---it's sort of a male version of the STU. Male feminists like Futrelle and feminism-for-men masculinists like Aiorthor are two sides of the same coin: they fan paedohysteria to reduce competiton for younger women because they themselves couldn't compete on an equal field with better men.

  80. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    That's a good point. In American parlance a 'girl' traditionally referred to any unmarried female. The problem with all these semantics is that the feminists and paedocrites have so blurred the definition of everything, that there's no way to express a term without it being misunderstood in one way or another.

    To make it even worse, the Obamanogs here have thrown considerable gasoline onto the fire by defining in the Healthcare Bill 'dependent children' up to the age of 26. Already we suffer from the absurd national 21 legal drinking-age (which, like the social purity movement, was instigated by a gang of femihags in the 1980s; supposedly to stop drunk-driving).

    Some of the Socons over here have been agitating to raise the AOC to 25 but the proposal hasn't been able to get much traction. However, with all the ill-defined age barriers, some pundits are proposing that the US adopt a national age of majority, and the yardstick that Obama set is starting to generate more interest in the subject.

  81. theantifeminist

    Post author

    That’s a good point. In American parlance a ‘girl’ traditionally referred to any unmarried female.

    I read a while back that feminists in France were actually getting the use of the term 'Mademoiselle' (which means more or less the same thing) made illegal.

    My fear is that most people (with the encouragement of feminists) will still think that, say, a 40 year old female is more of a 'woman' than a 19 year old female. So in a way, it could even re-inforce cougar culture! (ewwwww!!)

  82. Eric

    Antifeminist:
    I hadn't considered of any of this. I like your idea of reclaiming the term 'girl'. Admittedly, though, referring to teenagers as 'women' does get the paedohysterical crowd seeing red in a hurry!

    Another thing I've occasionally tried is bringing back the archaic word 'lady'. Speaking of a 14 y/o lady is a little bit less loaded than 'girl' or 'woman', but it's also somewhat equivocal. It implies adulthood without actually saying it.

  83. Alan Vaughn

    Yeah, it is and if they did enforce it: hundreds of thousands of poor and innocent little children would literally starve, even to death. The single mothers of such kids earn a meager income form that 'industry' because it's not only an inexpensive business to set up, they can do it from their homes, often while their parents or siblings keep an eye on the kids. (Most single mothers in the Philippines don't have their own home, but live with their families).

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