Eivind Berge Talks to Norwegian Television
Unfortunately, I do not understand Norwegian, but what he says in the interview appears to be quoted fully in the article re-printed below (Google translate). Thankfully, Eivind appears to be in good spirits, despite his ordeal. Given that I am one of the MRAs most associated with Eivind (I am one of the relatively few who link to him, and my site is second on his blogroll), I feel I need to clarify a few points first :
- I completely denounce the use of violence as unethical and unnecessary, particularly when we still (for now) have a platform to voice our valid complaints, and the men’s rights movement is growing and increasingly being heard (if not yet listened to) by the mainstream. This site has always been explicitly against violence, and has never encouraged or promoted violence in any form. The struggle for men’s rights is, and should remain, a peaceful human rights movement.
- I have supported Eivind and linked to his site because he is one of a minority of (present) MRAs unafraid to stand up and question all feminist laws. In particular, sex laws, which leave ever more men facing the subhuman label of ‘sex offender’, and which are invariably justified upon junk science, if not downright lies, and which are clearly attempts by older unattractive women with political power but no sexual power over men and younger females, to preserve or increase their own diminishing value in an increasingly free market sexual economy. Unless stopped by a peaceful but powerful men’s rights movement, Europe will soon be a mirror of the USA, where nearly a million men and growing are on the sex offenders registry, described by the (feminist) Supreme Court Judge as ‘bacteria’, and seen by the state as legitimate targets of vigilante justice, even after serving their sentences.
- Up until his arrest, I had not read any threats contained in his blog (I had only recently been made aware of him), and in particular the alleged threats made against the police. I admit I was disturbed reading of his support for the despicable actions of the psychopath Anders Breivik, and his general hostile and provocative rhetoric, as well as his somewhat bizarre statements regarding rape, and also the supposed inherent impossibility of women sexually abusing boys (or men). I kept my link to him because I considered his violent ‘threats’ to be so much hot air (and still do). Having said that, I strongly regret not leaving a comment on his blog, as I recently intended to do, asking him to tone down his aggressive stance.
- I have never had any contact, online or offline, with Eivinde Berge.
- Despite the understandable wish to disown a figure who was on the fringes of the MRM, there is no doubt that Eivinde Berge is a men’s rights supporter, often a highly articulate and courageous one, and in fact more of an MRA than most of those who are presently disowning him. There is also no doubt, however, that he has been indescribably stupid to allow his frustrations and anger to take him to this point, and the Men’s Rights Movement is right to disown his ill judged and over the top rhetoric. The only way I can interpret Eivind’s behaviour is that he actually wanted to be arrested for making these threats, in order that he could bring attention to the cause of men’s rights (without actually hurting anyone, and likely without ever having the intention of hurting anybody).
Link to the television interview : http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hordaland/1.8240522
Security police have received 1,400 tips on extreme opinions on the internet after the terrorist attack on 22 July. On Friday, a Bergenser detained for inciting the police murder of his blog.
Blogger EivindBerge is under investigation for expressions that are so extreme that the police fear that he might be dangerous. Ordinary people have repeatedly tipped off the police security service (PST) that he can be dangerous.
Today’s women and what he calls a feminist politics, is what provokes him.
- Feminism has undergone so much on me throughout these years. You can not open a newspaper without reading about it figured out new ways to put more men in prison, says Berge told NRK.He believes that it is spread hate propaganda to get sentenced more men.
- They will be judged more and lower the standard of proof, guilt demands and eliminate the jury in rape cases and such, he says when a television he meets in prison in Ålesund.Tuesday night was Berge was arrested for inciting the murder of police officers. It was later found ammunition and textbooks on explosives at home blogger.
- He has been very specific in terms of what he encourages people to do. Incentives for the murder of police officers is something we have to take seriously, says Rudolf Christoffersen a police attorney in Hordaland police district.
Increase in extreme expressions
JørnPresterud living room (NRK)There has been an increase in extreme expressions of extremist opinions online, especially after the terrorist attacks on 22 July, says JørnPresterud The living room is a chemistry PST.
It has received 1,400 tips, no PST rely on to determine which persons can be dangerous.
- We prioritize this work, of course, very high, he says to NRK.no.- There are some who have made statements on the Internet that have been visited by PST. Among other things, a preventive conversation.
Do the police overreact- It is an overreaction to imprison a blogger for expressing their opinions. This should go under the freedom of speech, for I have not threatened directly with violence, says EivindBerge.
- But are you dangerous?
- I’m not dangerous, but I hope to have inspired a man motion and it can be dangerous. It can be dangerous for feminists, says blogger who calls himself an anti-feminist.
There has been an increase in extreme expressions of extremist opinions online, especially after the terrorist attacks on 22 July, says JørnPresterud The living room is a chemistry PST.
It has received 1,400 tips, no PST rely on to determine which persons can be dangerous.
- We prioritize this work, of course, very high, he says to NRK.no.- There are some who have made statements on the Internet that have been visited by PST. Among other things, a preventive conversation.
Do the police overreact- It is an overreaction to imprison a blogger for expressing their opinions. This should go under the freedom of speech, for I have not threatened directly with violence, says EivindBerge.
- But are you dangerous?
- I’m not dangerous, but I hope to have inspired a man motion and it can be dangerous. It can be dangerous for feminists, says blogger who calls himself an anti-feminist.
This is problematic statements that should be considered dangerous. Freedom of expression should be broad, but specific requests about the killing is over the limit, says Øyvind Stream is a writer and journalist.
He has mapped the extreme right and kontrajihadistiske environments on the Internet, both in Norway and elsewhere in Europe. The flow has also been following the blog of Berge.
- He wants the publicity surrounding his message and his blog. The dangerous with Berge is that he can influence people who are able to do what he calls, says Power to NRK.- Not many people who share attitudes
Anders RavikJupskås is a research fellow at the Institute of Social Sciences at the University of Oslo and researching new right-wing populist parties.
He believes that there are many who share the attitudes of Bergen blogger.
- There are enough people who share these attitudes, but there are not many in Norway, Sweden and the northern countries of Europe.But he says that in particular in countries in Eastern Europe may be a larger group which can be called for misogynists.
- They hate that women get more and more influence. They do not want them to enter the labor market and universities in their countries, he says to NRK.
Killing women on campus
Anders RavikJupskås, a researcher at the University of Oslo. (Photo: Espen Eye / NRK)Jupskås says that it is rare that we see acts of violence from people with such motives, especially because it is not very organized groups.
- But we should remember one of the most famous events that took place in Canada in 1989, where a 25-year-old student killed 14 women at a university. He did so because he believed that feminists had ruined his chances for the community.He asks us also remember that no more than one person to carry out horrific acts.
- We know very well after the terrorist attacks on 22 July.Internet and the opportunities which not only makes it easy for the police to identify the extreme attitudes.
- The Internet has emerged as one of the most important recruitment and mobilization channels for these groups. There, change pages daily, and there are huge amounts to keep an eye on. People can also communicate quite hidden and anonymous nicknames and the like, said Jupskås.
*Notice that Eivind is repeatedly referred to by the Norwegian media as an ‘extreme right-wing’ blogger. In fact, his latest blog post expressly takes the MRM to task for its alleged general hostility to Islam. He has even suggested that he would be willing to convert to Islam. As far as I have read him, he does not wish to see women ‘back in the kitchen’, a reactionary attitude that the article above appears to want to conflate with his. As with myself, Eivind’s gripe is with the never ending criminalization of male sexuality by the feminist state.
I am from Norway, and I am not completely up to date to the case. I just want to remind you that the 22. july hysteria is never going to die down as it seems. People from the left wing are still sucking votes off it, and the endless debates about the breivik case are endless.
Norway is a feminist-riddled country to a large degree, and I agree that something has to be done with it. But with cases like this, it just feeds the mob of angry sluts and manginas. I see no current solution to the problem, and I feel ostracized enough as it is just being myself and stating my opinion. So fuck feminism, men are dead in Norway, don’t expect a revolution soon.
Jonas
11 Jul 12 at 10:03 pm
I would go as far as to say that in the last 7 days this true MRA has accomplished more the MRM than ALL of those mRA’s COMBINED on blogs such as AVfM advocating equal penalties for female sex offenders etc, etc; have achieved over the past 5 years!
Yeah sure, he’s a radical and could understanably be perceived as a psycho by many (although I don’t support that view, nor do think there’s anything wrong with his mental state), however, nobody can deny he has true COURAGE!
He is simply trying to tell the world and in particular: the men of this world what he believes are facts they are almost oblivious to, but must be made aware of.
He knows that the only people who are likely to be reading his blog are people such as us, who already know what he has chronicled there and this is why I agree that he made those dispicable threats and vile comments against the police in the hope that it would eventually be picked up by their RADAR, thus resulting in what has just occured.
He is a true activist and knows that his message will not reach many while he sits hiding behind an online diary, that is read only by a few concerned individuals (from both sides of the political fence).
Like many famous activists in the past, he realizes also that he will not be liked, but knows that doesn’t matter, because for all those that disagree there will be some, perhaps still representing only a small minority that will AGREE with his views. They are the ones that matter.
It’s likey too that Eivind will loose this little crusade and may even suffer terrible consequences and go down in history as just another Martyr, however at least he had the audacity, the gumption to try and to try at his own expense, to bring to the world’s attention what he sincerely believes is something very WRONG and UNJUST!
He really has put himself on the line.
Nobody who calls himself an MRA should condemn him for what I think he is clearly trying to do: for HIM as well as all men!
Alan Vaughn
11 Jul 12 at 10:30 pm
Jonas;
These feminist fanatics are the same all over: the means justify any ends, and they will milk the Brelvik case for all its worth to clamp down on their enemies.
There were some very suspicious elements to the story. One was the high number of ‘tips’ the Norwegian Gestapo used to execute a warrant. Even in a police state like America, the fact that there were so many tips and (that the police actually acted on them) suggests a huge ‘red flag’ on its face.
Another is the snotty media suggestion about ‘ammunition and books on explosives’ being found in the home—without any further elaboration. This is a guilt-by-association tactic our media does all the time. Whenever a crime is committed (or staged) over here; the authorities always find gun literature, or porn, or drugs…nothing related to the case and nothing specifically described.
Alan might be right about it being an act of civil disobedience, but I smell a rat here somewhere…
Eric
12 Jul 12 at 5:23 am
never heard of eivind berge unless he went by some alternate online handle
not aware of his threats or whatever either, but you are right to re-emphasize the NON-VIOLENT nature of opposition to feminism (in juxtaposition to feminist tactics, which promote violence against boys and men, directly and by proxy)
violence only gives the westen matriarchies more rationalizations to disenfranchise and degrade us (see what horrible beests they are, let’s build more mancages!)
of course, the matriarchies will continue to drive some men to violence, because the war on masculinity across the globe can only continue and worsen — ideologies of hate, such as feminism, do not “give up” — they continue to metastisize until they are eradicated (like any cancer)
i disagree w/ you on many things, but this was a gutsy post, i respect that
ray
12 Jul 12 at 9:05 am
Meanwhile, more news from the Great
TotalitarianFree State Downunder…I.e.
Read More…
Alan Vaughn
12 Jul 12 at 9:42 am
Russia too : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/11/russia-internet-censorship?newsfeed=true
http://nimg.sulekha.com/others/original700/yelena-mizulina-2011-5-30-8-21-5.jpg (warning)
theantifeminist
12 Jul 12 at 10:46 am
Thanks Ray.
theantifeminist
12 Jul 12 at 10:52 am
In that case, it looks like both Eivind and the Norwegian state are getting what they both want from this.
I still think it’s very silly of Eivind. For sure it’s frustrating the lack of progress at even convincing the ‘men’s rights movement’ that feminist sex laws are a (or the) central issue, but who knows where we will be in 5 years time?
This just gives the ugly fat she-beasts opportunities to strangle the MRM at birth. One such is already using Eivind’s case to push for new hate speech laws against men’s rights supporters (you’ll need to run Google translate) : http://www.dagsavisen.no/nyemeninger/alle_meninger/cat1003/subcat1018/thread249673/#post_249673
theantifeminist
12 Jul 12 at 10:56 am
It just gets better… Here’s some wonderful new technology that should make the Oprah Winfrey / Chris Hansen lynch-mobs very happy!
Why don’t they just stop kidding around and just EXTERMINATE ALL men and boys from the planet?
At least then the remaining ‘children’ (young women) won’t need to suffer the indignity of enforced victimhood anymore…
Alan Vaughn
12 Jul 12 at 11:48 am
This is rather scary – from an English speaking Icelandic news site. Judging from the language, it appears that even stating anti-feminist opinions is illegal in Iceland now :
http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2012/07/12/norway-jails-extremist-blogger-for-two-weeks/
theantifeminist
12 Jul 12 at 5:11 pm
Antifeminist:
I noticed too that a bunch of American manginas, especially Futrelle, jumped on this story immediately and wrote unusually long in-depth commentaries about it. I mentioned that anomoly on the Spearhead, which led to Futrelle immediately spinning out another article laughing over the idea that there is any such ‘orchestration’ involved.
It seems like a very strange reaction: a story that otherwise would be relatively minor getting this much attention from the MSM and politicians, especially over something that was written 2-3 years ago that seems to have come to nothing (even assuming this was Berge’s intention). It also seems strange that Futrelle and others like him are so quick to dismiss any idea that anti-MRM forces are working in concert…
I think there’s more to this story on the way.
Eric
12 Jul 12 at 8:00 pm
I agree that Eivind was (more than just) silly, which is what I implied by stating ‘It’s likey too that Eivind will loose this little crusade and may even suffer terrible consequences and go down in history as just another Martyr, however at least he had the audacity,…’
The fat she-beasts demanding more laws must be passed to silence us of course, is nothing new, but indeed Eivind’s recent apprehension and subsequent public investigation will certainly work far more in their favour than ours.
Therefore if what we discuss in MRM blogs (including Eivind Berge’s) is about to be deemed ‘hate speech’, then the ideas and views expressed in their (many times greater number of) forums can be nothing less than criminal vilification of a minority group, which is a serious offence under current human rights legislation, in all UN member countries and therefore is already very much ILLEGAL!
The problem of course, is that the UN itself is now also ruled by, or at least subservient to the gynocracy, so whichever authority one approaches for protection against this blatant and biased victimization / vilification: no such protection or fairness, or even sympathy will ever be forthcoming.
The feminist man-hating bigots are now perfectly at liberty to say and do whatever they please and there isn’t a damn thing we can do about it!
Alan Vaughn
13 Jul 12 at 5:58 am
If the MRM can be strangled at birth on the basis of just such a case, that means calls for the use of force will, in retrospect, seem justified.
Anonymous
13 Jul 12 at 1:20 pm
He was a regular commentator as Apargus at The Spearhead.
theantifeminist
14 Jul 12 at 6:37 am
This is why I don’t think it’s right to dismiss Futrelle as simply a buffoon.
I’d also ask how on Earth he managed to get the position of ‘Tech Investment Guru’ at CNN on the basis of a few (non tech related) articles for a Chicago blog site and Salon magazine, and then recently get employed by Time magazine? And how does he afford to spend so much time on his blog (posting long articles every day and quote mining the entire MRM)?
Many of his articles in those early days were about statutory rape laws and railing against child sex abuse hysteria. The very things he castigates myself for writing about here.
Futrelle is not a buffoon, unfortunately, he is desperately trying to have the MRM strangled at birth. He was clearly behind the SLPC article and he clearly has some very important connections who are working with him.
I really think it’s time to turn up the heat on Futrelle. For the life of me, I don’t understand why bigger sites than mine aren’t making use of some of his earlier quotes. He really did say these things about adults who fuck and impregnate underage kids not going to prison, he wrote at least THREE articles mocking child sex abuse hysteria.
I don’t think anyone else has picked up on his ‘ManBoobz Meet-ups’ – blatant attempts to get laid with his mentally disturbed readers (btw, try Googling ‘david futrelle meet up’).
Shouldn’t Time and CNN be worried that if Futrelle turns out to be the next Kyle Payne that it’s going to look bad on them?
The only article that really exposes Futrelle as he should be was written by Welmer a little while back :
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2012/04/09/david-futrelle-to-teach-coeds-how-to-have-good-sex/
theantifeminist
14 Jul 12 at 6:57 am
Antifeminist:
The mass media is a cut-throat enterprise and people like Futrelle don’t rise to any prominance in it without considerable ‘connections’. The fact that his bosses are able to whitewash his past comments and overlook his sexual ‘indiscretions’ implies to me that they consider him an ‘asset’ of some value.
He does come across as a ‘buffoon’ but he’s got cards he isn’t showing. I agree that it’s time to turn up the heat on him.
Eric
14 Jul 12 at 7:52 am
Do you have any idea then as why he so suddenly crossed the floor?
I.e. would the word paedocrite help to explain anything?
(I don’t necessarily mean in relation to his own sexuality or activities either, but could have something to do with how he was able to win such high profile and no doubt very well rewarded writing jobs)?
Alan Vaughn
14 Jul 12 at 9:50 am
Alan;
I think that’s probably true. Guys like this change their ‘principles’ whenever it’s expedient to do so.
Eric
14 Jul 12 at 8:55 pm
“Do you have any idea then as why he so suddenly crossed the floor?
I.e. would the word paedocrite help to explain anything?”
Well according to his own logic, he was/is a paedophile.
It’s certainly beyond ‘suspicious’ that he himself wrote numerous articles complaining of the stupidity of American paedophile hysteria, and yet now, for example, he mocks the girlfriend of Eivind for writing an article ‘on something she calls American paedohysteria’. Has he forgotten that he wrote these articles and that they are still online for every one of us to read?
But I must make it clear that I distance myself completely from this early incarnation of David Futrelle, even if elements of his pre-manboobz writings were quite sane and rational. For example, I have always made clear that adults who recklessly impregnate young teens should be punished, and I have never, and never would describe a pederast’s boy rape fantasy as ‘tender and erotic’.
theantifeminist
14 Jul 12 at 9:52 pm
Antifeminist:
The fact that Futrelle’s ‘fantasies’ were as you described them shows that ‘principle’ plays very little part in any of his wiritings.
Eric
14 Jul 12 at 9:59 pm
He was a regular commentator as Apargus at The Spearhead.
rings a v faint bell
given the breadth of futrelle’s monkeywrenching, it’scertainly possible he’s more than merely a mercenary coward and weakling
he could be more of an “asset” than you imagine — there are some scattered about, you know
in context of above discussions, it’s noteworthy that our first female president just signed and exec order authoritzing himself access to ALL PERSONAL COMMUNICATIONS BY US CITIZENS
ray
14 Jul 12 at 10:35 pm
Ray:
Another thing to consider too is the mere fact that Futrelle is given so much media exposure and was able to write a letter to the SLPC and be taken seriously. It shows that THOSE guys don’t consider him a clown or a buffoon. I don’t think we should either.
Eric
15 Jul 12 at 12:29 am
I visited his blog today and it appears to me that the entire blog is nothing more than a collection of such mined quotes (with links to) anyone with anything like dissenting views. There’s actually a small number of them from this blog BTW.
I didn’t stop very long as the blatant misandry and endless lies I quickly skimmed over were more than I could stomach, however one recent post that I found most interesting was his unforgiving attack on Tom Martin (posted on Friday 13th July). Considering David’s past incarnations (which his moronic followers are either unaware of or just refuse to believe), that scathing attack on Tom does nothing more than confirm our assumption that he is indeed a text-book paedocrite wearing a mangina’s disguise.
He may fool those idiots that support him with their air-head / childish comments on his HATE blog with his mangina suit, but we can see straight through it…
(“Look at me: I can’t be a paedophile, I hate them and I hate Men’s Rights Activists! AND… Mysogyny, I mock it.”)
Yeah…
And he writes for Time Magazine???
Alan Vaughn
15 Jul 12 at 9:47 am
I visited his blog today and it appears to me that the entire blog is nothing more than a collection of such mined quotes (with links to) anyone with anything like dissenting views. There’s actually a small number of them from this blog BTW.
I didn’t stop very long as the blatant misandry and endless lies I quickly skimmed over were more than I could stomach, however one recent post that I found most interesting was his unforgiving attack on Tom Martin (posted on Friday 13th July). Considering David’s past incarnations (which his moronic followers are either unaware of or just refuse to believe), that scathing attack on Tom does nothing more than confirm our assumption that he is indeed a text-book paedocrite wearing a mangina’s disguise.
He may fool those idiots that support him with their air-head / childish comments on his HATE blog with his mangina suit, but we can see straight through it…
“Look at me: I can’t be a paedophile, I hate them and I hate Men’s Rights Activists! AND… Mysogyny, I mock it.”
Yeah…
And he writes for Time Magazine?
Alan Vaughn
15 Jul 12 at 9:52 am
i’m sorry to say youre correct eric
not that theres anything you can do about it, except whats already being done — investigate, research, speak or write the truth, take small (nonviolent) actions
it cant be any big shock to readers here that the west’s regimes are deeply rooted in feminism — facile policial solutions arent gonna touch this rot, way too much money and power at stake
these people and interests do not like the truth, and dont engage in it, so that tells you exactly what your weapon is, and always has been
look, yr overtly and devoutly uberfeminist pres and vp, in the last year or two, have arrogated to themselves, essentially unilaterally, the powers to:
1) seize, interrogate, imprison, torture, and/or murder any us citizen deemed a “terrorist” by obama — just by him! no other opinions required, get it?
2) access to ALL communications by citizens, including personal comm — no court order, no oversight, just boom, you n granny best watchit
the berge business etc, like with the splc or wikilinks guy, is groundwork-laying, in the minds of these reptiles, so that later other measures can be taken — and crucially, the Implied Consent necessary to “convince the public” of the “necessity” for justified action against “extremists” is in the public interest
this is the nature of your enemy’s mind (and that was the GOOD stuff)
;O)
i say this stuff b/c folks involved in criticising the gyno-state have a right to know what is coming, and to decide if and/or at what level they wish to be involved (some have kids and i aint judging)
of course i will be fully involved, and not just to the end
there’s no reason to fear, but on other hand it is only fair i’m honest about my appraisal of the situation, could be rong, hope i’m rong, signs dont indicate it tho
cheers anyway, never let the fucks get you down
ray
15 Jul 12 at 10:22 am
Great article.
I understand that Norwegian authorities are paranoid after Breivik. But they could question Eivind without arresting him.
I have not seen any clear calls for violence from him. I looked at this blog, too.
I thought he was quite consistent, and agreed with most of his attitude that post-pubertal males are not victims when having consensual sex with older females. I think all three of us agree on much lower age of consent laws for both sexes.
Even about Breivik, whatever I read did not look like endorsement of Breivik’s murderous acts. It seems he always skirted a fine line showing some understandings for some of Breivik’s motivations or political opinions but not condoning his actions.
So it seems to be both: oversensitivity to terrorist danger and selective over-reaction to anti-feminism that caused his arrest.
Human-Stupidity.com
15 Jul 12 at 11:22 am
Berge reportedly said in an event at the University of Bergen last year that gender equality politics make it so that many men are unable to attract women. He said that they are, “Ticking bombs that are in danger of turning into violent male activists”, the Norway Post reports.
Read more: http://www.icenews.is/index.php/2012/07/12/norway-jails-extremist-blogger-for-two-weeks/#ixzz20goMcXFX
Next someone will get arrested for saying that the huge male suplus caused by Chinese selective abortions could cause riots and unrest in China.
Of course not, because feminists oppose selective abortion of females, so such an opinion is politically acceptable.
Human-Stupidity.com
15 Jul 12 at 11:27 am
I have just recently read through some of Eivind Berge’s blog and yes indeed there is some pretty hard hitting stuff on there. I do have some serious disagreements with him though wrt his stance that men would be better off if society returned to “Christian Monogamy” as it would lead to a more “equitable distribution” of women amongst the men (especially beta males) which would in turn lead to a more invigorated society as beta males would alledgedly be more motivated to contribute to society. I would like to point out that too many MRAs (i am talking about conservative mras in general here not necessarily Eivind Berge specifically)have this idea that the current problems that exist between men and women are the inevitable result of too much sexual freedom that we ust turn back the clock for things to get better. I have several objections to this view:
1) Just how much sexual freedom do we have? Laws against prostitution, laws against sex with young girls, laws against bringing in foreign wives, ridiculous “rape” laws, ridiculous divorce laws and cultural factors such as pedohysteria and cultural prohibitions against polyamory…sure does not sound like a “sexually free” environment to me.
2) The sexual marketplace does not exist in a vacuum. What i mean to say is that there are other factors that will influence the quality of male/female relations besides just the amount of sexual freedom that they have. In other words if men for example are unhappy (with the way things are going sex wise) in a particular jurisdiction where there is a sexual freemarket…it does not necessarily mean that the sexual freemarket is at fault. For example a large surplus of males will increase female bargaining power…and make things shittier for the males. Also if Society A (which is a sexually free society and which gives both males and females autonomy as to their chice of partners) begins admitting alot of immigrants from Society B (which allows males to pair off with females of other societies but not thier females) this will create a shitty environment for males of Society A (yes I am speaking about muslim, arab, turkish, pakistani immigration to europe here). Gender ideology can also wreak havoc on men’s welfare in the sexual marketplace…feminist lies about the division of labour (the women work 2 jobs men work 1 fallacy) and many other things as well as the stupid chivalrous ideology of many conservatives can sour women against men and negatively impact male/female relations. Our current definition of “sexism” is very problematic as in practice in means saying anything about women that is critical this makes it difficult to hold women accountable for poor choices that many of them make or for poor attitudes towards men that many of them have (and a sexual freemarket need not translate into an environment where women lack accountability).
3) Did men (or at least lower status males) have it better in earlier times? Keep in mind that the internet allows marginalized groups to voice thier beefs…there might simply have been a more limited means of public discourse available to sexually frustrated males in earlier times. Even if things were better for men in the west during the 1950s and early 1960s well…this was right after fucking WORLD WAR 2!!!…a lot more men than women were killed in that war and this would have resulted in a gender ratio that was favourable to men in the sexual marketplace so naturally women might have developed more man-pleasing qualities and a more welcoming attitude towards lower status males.
4) Many MRAs and MGTOWers complain that women today A) spend too much time chasing jerks and badboys and undervalue nice guys. It often then alledged that this situation is caused by giving women too much sexual freedom (because women are alledgedly hard wired to prefer bad boys because bad boys possess qualities that would have mafe them alpha males through most of our evolutionary period) and that the solution is to close the sexual freemarket. well I AGREE that too many contemporary women undervalue nice guys and spend too much time chasing jerks…but I also think that this preference amongst women is an ARTIFICIAL one created by current family law policies, social welfare policies and high ages of consent and pedohysteria. Current family law allows a woman to take away large amounts of a man’s wealth (whether it is he or she that ends the marriage or cohabitation)…well why would a woman value guys with qualities ensuring stability (ie nice guys) in this situation…if she wants to enjoy a lifestyle that a certain man provides she can for him to provide it if he leaves her or if she gets bored with him…stability is not necessary and neither is any effort to keep your partner happy once you get past a certain point. Both Warren Farrell and Steve Moxon have written about welfare policies that discourage single low income mothers from having a thier childs father around. With Big Sister looking after them is it any wonder that many very low income women may prefer to “ride the bad boy cock carousel”. High age of consent laws and pedohysteria are another problem: adolescent girls (and to a certain extent women aged 18 to 20 as well) have no incentive to value stability qualities in boys of thier own age because at this age boys with stability qualities have no fruits to show for their labour except for good grades whereas bad boys have charm and adventure galore. This leads to an environment where teenage bad boys monopolize most female attention…this translates into an advantage for bad boys for quite a while after high school/university as well because they have developed a lot of experience with women whereas many nice guys enter adulthood with sexual social skills that are years behind thier bad boy counterparts. But this situation is avoidable…LET OLDER NICE GUYS WHO DO HAVE FRUITS TO SHOW FOR THIER LABOUR DATE YOUNG GIRLS. This can allow older (and wealthier) nice guys to cock-block penniless bad boys. Look i am not denying that women are indeed attracted to certain bad boy qualities but they are ALSO attracted to stability qualities and then go on to make partner choices by balancing the two. That perhaps too many contemporary women undervalue stability qualities in no way translates into a sexual freemarket (if we even have one) being at fault. Poor welfare policies and unbalanced divorce laws 9which encurage women to undervalue stability qualities) have nothing to do with the sexual free market…they can exist in societies with either conservative or liberal sexual laws/values. In the case of age of consent laws and pedohysteria…well that is a case of REGULATIONS of the sexual marketplace causing problems (giving bad boys an unfair haed start)
I have more to write on this issue but i am busy and must get going.
The Highwayman
15 Jul 12 at 6:51 pm
If Society A (which is a sexually free society and which gives both males and females autonomy as to their choice of partners) begins admitting a lot of immigrants from Society B (which allows males to pair off with females of other societies but not their females) this will create a shitty environment for males of Society A.
This is a point I’ve made myself. Sadly, I haven’t heard it being made in debates about immigration. The scandal is not too many Arabs or black Africans. The scandal is to many geezers and virtually no females. The only way females get in is drip-drop, through marriage with a European male (future alimony payer). Wymmyns want as many men as possible, that’s why they have no quarrel with present immigration policies. The higher the surplus of men, the better for wymmyns. I’m surprised that otherwise clever analysts like S. Moxon haven’t emphasized this state of affairs. As far as I’m concerned the present immigration debate is a nonstarter since it misses what makes immigration unbearable for the Western male.
Jack
16 Jul 12 at 4:05 pm
Good points Highwayman.
I agree that a return to a traditional conservative sexual society is not the answer for men.
Traditionalist MRAs are as confused as second wave feminists were as to why the sex market has changed.
Traditionalist MRAs still think that feminists caused the sexual revolution, just as second wave feminists saw themselves as sexually liberated by it.
In fact, it was primarily new technology that opened up the sex market (the rationalisations of the second wave feminists helped initially of course). This was a good thing for men at first. I don’t believe there were many young men complaining in the 60′s and 70′s, at least not judging by the poppular culture of the time.
The problems occured as a result of second and third wave feminism (which are responses to the sexual revolution, not its causes). For example, the decline in the birth rate was caused by both the pill and the subsequent feminist driven demands for female entry into university and careers. Which in turn led to the need for constant immigration from the Third World, particularly male labour (which, in Europe, has been mainly muslim).
Now, with third wave feminism, feminists are successfully passing sexually conservative law after law restricting male sexuality and which are actually being ignored or even supported by traditionalist MRAs who prefer to focus on the ‘slut walks’ of clueless 20 year old students.
Only a traditional society rigidly enforcing sexual laws (aka most muslim societies) could hope to reverse the sexual revolution, and I don’t believe that such a society would be good for men, and certainly not for ‘beta males’. Such a society would be serving the sexual trade union’s purpose by attempting to end the technological trend of increasingly cheap access to sexual outlets for men (such as porn, prostitution, and easy lays).
At least Jay Hammers tries to imagine a ‘perfect society’ which stones to death 15 year old sluts in the name of family values, yet will let men (including husbands and fathers) fap off to as much of the holographic porn, vr sex etc that’s coming our way as we want to. Utterly absurd of course.
In my view, the men’s rights movement ought to accept the sexual revolution, realise that feminism exists to end the sexual revolution (or at least take away all its benefits for men), and to work for a sexually free society that accords proper rights to men and fathers in such a society (for example, the right to paternity testing, the right to pay for sex, to watch porn, a reasonable age of consent, freedom from false rape accusations).
theantifeminist
16 Jul 12 at 8:10 pm
The fact that muslim men in ‘infidel’ lands are a minority and largely free of the sexual restraints imposed in Islamic societies also encourages European men to convert to Islam.
You can preach a sexually conservative outlook, that ‘Islam is the answer’, whilst enjoying the fruits of a sexually free society, and having sexual access to both western and muslim women.
Remember when Columnist suggested we all become muslims so that we could take four wives each? I pointed out that simple maths suggests that only the top 25% at most could take 4 women for themselves. That’s true in an Islamic society of course, with the Betas left behind, but it’s not true if muslims are a minority. Converting to Islam is rational and selfish for a beta male (so long as everybody else doesn’t).
theantifeminist
16 Jul 12 at 8:20 pm
Somewhat bizzarely, he linked directly to one of your comments about getting laid in Asia without having to pay.
He used to quote me a lot, always my comments on the age of consent, misquoting me by stating that I wanted to abolish the age of consent (in fact I think 14 is fairly reasonable – the average age of consent in Europe now, and this blog is far more about the excessive and increasing laws and punishments for ‘sex crimes’ rather than reducing the age of consent).
Then he stopped after my ‘David Futrelle and the Advocacy of Child Murder’ article. I think he’s bright enough to realise that if he links to me regularly then it will simply send my article up to number 1 on Google for the search term ‘David Futrelle’.
theantifeminist
16 Jul 12 at 8:26 pm
Yes I remember that comment, it was about Eivind being bitter about how he couldn’t get laid and some ‘good samaritan’ type wrote to him advising him going to Asia (all this was and still is on Eivinds blog) and I commented about (that) in reply to your thread: about your recent ‘discovery’ of Eivind Berge being a like-minded blogger…
It had absolutely NOTHING to do with age of consent laws, only how easy it is to find really lovely, attractive (in all respects) girls (well over the age of consent even in Futrelle’s puritanical society), thus dismissing that ‘good samaritan’s’ advice to Eivind to go there to hire the services of prostitutes…
The guy writes’s for famous publications such as Time magazine, yet it appears he cannot even read properly?
Makes it even more suspicious!
Alan Vaughn
16 Jul 12 at 9:13 pm
Just as an aside, Futrelle’s running on a rampage as we speak over supposed advocacy of ‘child prostitution’. His target is named Tom Martin—I confess I don’t know much about Martin; but Futrelle’s at it again with the double-dealings.
Eric
17 Jul 12 at 1:50 am
Eric,
Yes I already mentioned his attack on Tom Martin in my comment above.
I also mentioned (above) that his whole blog of mined quotes does nothing more than convince me that he is nothing more than a text-book Paedocrite.
We’ve discussed this at great length over the past few months: how people who are always expressing their hatred towards certain sexual deviants (including Gays) by beating them up, organizing lynch-mobs or even commenting and quote mining on blogs, are invariably such deviants themselves. It’s like a childish defence ‘look at me a CAN’T be a paedo or – - – - – (fill in specific deviant), I HATE them!’.
They do this believing that they are diverting the world’s attention away from themselves, thus won’t be exposed…
Fraudtrelle is a typical example and his pathetic attempts to shame us in front of his moronic sexual trade union followers is testimony to it.
He’s in effect using the feminists as a kind of shield.
Alan Vaughn
17 Jul 12 at 2:30 am
@theantifeminist
And another (in Spam folder)…
Alan Vaughn
17 Jul 12 at 2:32 am
Alan:
He’s gone after Tom Martin again—two articles today. I wonder what’s up with all this?
You could be right—though it could be that he’s trying to go to a ‘soft target’ to divert attention from the extra scrutiny he’s brought upon himself lately.
Eric
17 Jul 12 at 7:29 am
Eric,
Yes I think you could be right on the button there: he would be wise to keep his flock away from here, in case one or two of them clicks my link: ‘a text-book Paedocrite‘ and many similar ones that theantifeminist himself made in other articles about their esteemed mentor and hero.
Alan Vaughn
17 Jul 12 at 9:05 am
Alan,
Not only that, but he’s gotten sucker-punched a couple of times on other blogs lately too. About a week ago, he fell for thread by a known troll and got exposed for it on the Spearhead.
Eric
17 Jul 12 at 10:14 am
@theantifeminist and Eric,
Fraudtrelle’s popular misandry blog also has a ‘Glosarry of terms’ albeit a very incomplete one.
Maybe someone should suggest that he adds ‘Paedocrite’ to it and after the explanation, for elucidation: list all of the links to his editorials and opinions he proudly authored when he was (almost) a MRA himself…
Alan Vaughn
17 Jul 12 at 12:40 pm
The latest news on Eivind appears to be that the police are going to continue holding him, and are going to announce on Friday ‘new information’ on the case.. http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/artikkel.php?artid=10051567
theantifeminist
18 Jul 12 at 8:59 am
I know some of you don’t visit AVfM these days, but they are doing sterling work in eviscorating this feminist sexual trade union bitch :
http://thefemitheist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/5-semi-unknown-female-heroes.html
http://thefemitheist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/young-female-fantasy-pornography.html
How on Earth she hasn’t been arrested I don’t know. Well I do know – she’s a feminist and she has a vagina.
http://www.avoiceformen.com/a-voice-for-men/from-jtos-in-box/
theantifeminist
18 Jul 12 at 9:03 am
I wonder how our friend Futrelle would spin these ‘acts of justice’ if a man had committed them?
The fact that the feminist media is holding up these fine flowers of femininity as role models ought to leave no doubt as to their intentions for the rest of us.
Eric
18 Jul 12 at 9:21 am
I read it all yesterday – I was bored so went there, but only to read, not comment…
The comments and the hatred and even threats she made over about 3 months make the ‘hate-speech’ chronicled by Eivind Berge on his blog look like nothing more than the ramblings of an aspiring comic.
If Eivind Berge is still being held in prison for what he said (and he did say the things they allege), this monster should be in the most secure psychiatric facility in the US for the abominable things she said via a similar blog to Mr Berge’s.
Last I checked, (by reading JtO’s post at AVfM), nobody seems to know where she is, or what she’s been doing since she left her final farewell post, sometime either late yesterday or today…
However I also noticed that she has left a totally different ‘final post’ to the one I read yesterday, where she now actually apologizes, as JtO had suggested she should.
Regardless of how humble and sincere her aplology might appear: the hate she expressed on her blog should never be forgotten.
On the other hand, if one reads her numerous rantings, he / she does not need a psychology degree to easily conclude that the young woman is seriously disturbed, thus she could be just a deluded and frightened little girl whose only escape is the sense of power she enjoys over people (men), thanks to the anonymity thus sense of safety that only the Internet can give her; or more likely: she is a very dangerous psychopath and her very public remarks should be taken at least as seriously as the Norwegian law enforcement personnel regard Eivind Berge’s radical comments!
Yet, needless to say: she will not even be questioned by the police over this let alone arrested, becuase indeed: unlike her male rival, Eivind Berge: she’s a feminist and has a vagina.
Alan Vaughn
18 Jul 12 at 10:28 am
I haven’t read the earlier articles on her at AVfM, but I think John mentions that she is a member of the infamous radfemhub. This is the hate organization that helps fund the fraudulent ‘civil rights’ group the SLPC.
theantifeminist
18 Jul 12 at 10:48 am
There is also another recent article at AVfM, concerning the infamous Radfem Hub and which I’d commented on, here:
Not too sure, but I think that bitter femi-hag McLellan was also part of that controversial gaggle of lesbian rad-fem misandrists, (all members of Redfem Hub) who were advocating more-or-less for things like euthenizing of male new-borns and ultimately male genocide; which last year: was all exposed by a cunning MRA, known only as ‘Agent Orange’ ?
Alan Vaughn
18 Jul 12 at 9:43 pm
Interesting woman, using Futrelle as a starting point to then bemoan male disadvantage. Anglobitch is an anti-feminst woman.
http://kshatriya-anglobitch.blogspot.com.br/2010/11/whats-wrong-with-david-futrelle.html
Human-Stupidity.com
22 Jul 12 at 11:55 pm
HumanStupidity:
Just as a correction, I’ve followed Anglobitch for a long time: the moderator is anti-feminist, but NOT a female. He’s been active in the MRM for a long time, and worked with Angry Harry for awhile.
Eric
23 Jul 12 at 1:23 am
Returning to Eivind Berge.
It is pretty unwise to actually threaten violence against police. At a time when the Breivik mass murders had shocked the nation. If Eivind was kidding, it was very unwise. If he was even lightly serious, then police reaction is actually justified.
Maybe he just went overboard in one single threat. I have searched his blog and found Eivind always being law abiding. He would partially understand Breivik, but not condone his actions nor suggest others to do likewise. The one threat cited here might have been a lapse, a stupidity.
But if one irritates the feminist establishment, one has to be double careful not to say stupid things. There should be better ways to call the public’s attention then looking like a potentially dangerous and murderous lunatic.
Yes, there is a double standard. Women can condone “society for cutting up men”, defend female murderers or mutilators like Lorena Bobbitt and get away with it.
Human-Stupidity.com
23 Jul 12 at 2:40 am
Yes, or spread their hatred freely and easily via available media such as this blog …
I don’t think Eivind Berge’s sentiments were any worse than this feminist psychopath’s. (Read the whole blog if you have time, you won’t believe some of this stuff)!
And this ‘woman’ isn’t in prison, nor has she even been interviewed by police…
Alan Vaughn
23 Jul 12 at 3:01 am
Meanwhile I can’t help thinking of Eivind Berge when I read about yet another case of what he would have considered to be a “lucky” high-school student:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/07/kacy-christine-wilson-former-teacher-pulls-student-sex-in-closet_n_1496839.html
jack
26 Jul 12 at 7:18 am
Yes that was probably his pet peeve. I see they’re treating it as a crime only marginally less serious than the Aurora cinema massacre, as per usual with these sorts of heinous crimes…
Why can’t the feminist police state just live and let live?
Alan Vaughn
26 Jul 12 at 7:36 am
They’ve given up on being lenient towards women committing technical paedophilia. They probably consider that it’s a pity for a woman to be convicted of any serious crime at all but on the other hand they want women who “give it for free” to be punished.
jack
26 Jul 12 at 8:19 am
This is the woman that r/mensrights was screaming was a ‘child rapist’.
theantifeminist
26 Jul 12 at 8:09 pm