Outline for an essay – Peak Female Sexual Attractiveness

the three graces
The Three Graces - Ancient Greek representation of fertility

At what age is the average female most sexually alluring to an ordinary, healthy, uncastrated male?  Is it even possible to ask this question in the climate of today, and expect a reasonably honest answer?  There have been a couple of good tries in the anti-feminist community recently, but such attempts inevitably end up with men playing the ‘I’m less of a paedophile than any other man here – feminists might be reading’ game. Perhaps, on such topics, we should follow the sage advice of Ludwig Wittgenstein, and accept that ‘of that which we cannot speak of, we ought to remain silent’?  At least this way some semblance of male dignity is preserved.

One things for sure.  The mangina respondents to this survey, faced with their scowling wives peering over their shoulders, didn’t remain silent when they clearly ought to have.

Well, I’m going to have a go at a politically incorrect, honest analysis of what evolutionary theory, and not the deluded wishes of 31 year old women, would predict men to find most attractive, age wise, in females.

But not today.  If something so politically incorrect is worth doing, then it’s worth doing well, and I need your help.  I’m asking readers like Highwayman, Frank, RR, and others, as well as other bloggers such as Human-Stupidity and Jay Hammers to give me some suggestions and advice.  Any links and resources would also be most valued.

Hopefully I’ll have the article completed before I allow my wandering eyes to put theory into practice on the beaches of the French riviera next month.  But for now, here is a sketch of some of the points I will be addressing :

The concept of ‘peak fertility’.  A mistake often made is to assume that because a woman reaches peak fertility (number of eggs produced) at age 22 or so, that this means that men will find her most attractive at 22.  False.  You also have to factor in the number of remaining years of fertility into the equation.  Also, the likelihood of the girl being a virgin or not (‘mummy’s baby, daddy’s maybe’).  For these reasons, even though an 18 year old may be slightly ‘less fertile’ than a 22 year old, ET would still predict that men would prefer the 18 year old. (and there are also good ET reasons why a woman would reach peak fertility some time after she has bonded with/attracted a male provider – I will explain these in the finished article).

Evidence through long-term history.  The well-established fact that the norm has been for men to marry girls shortly after the commencement of fertility (the menarche).

Evidence through recent history.  Whatever the situation in America, in Europe both ‘paedohysteria’ and the extension of paedophilia to embrace sex with ‘minors’ (a ‘minor’ itself being an imported American concept), is a very recent phenomenon.  Little more than 10 years ago, the most popular porn franchise in Europe was ‘channel seventeen’ – hardcore pornographic videos featuring 16 and 17 year old Dutch girls (now of course, illegal even to view due to American/’child protection’ group lobbying).  The most popular British newspaper, the ‘Sun’, reached it’s position (after almost folding in the 70’s) through publishing topless ‘page 3’ girls, often aged 16 or 17 (including the most famous of them – Samantha Fox).  Equivalents in Denmark and Gemany, such as Das Bild, regularly published topless photos of 15 year olds.  More risque tabloids, such as the British ‘Sunday Sport’ often held competitions for its readers to have sex with 16 year old pornstars.  In fact, it would often count down the days until one of their glamour models reached her 16th birthday, titilating readers with revealing bikini shots, until it could legally show her topless.  The market does not lie.

In Japan, which until the last few years had absolutely no taboos whatsoever on teenage sex, it was taken for granted that teenage girls were most attractive (and virtually all porn and erotica involved teenage girls). Train stations would have used schoolgirl panty vending machines. In Japan the school uniform is a symbol of male desire, just as the mini-skirt is in America.  Are Japanese men simply perverted?  Or is a more likely explanation that Japan, until the last few years, was free from anglo-saxon christian puritism, as well as sexual trade union feminism? (not to mention being free from America’s teen pregnancy rates, teen obesity levels, youth violence etc. But that’s another article….)

Statistical reasons relating to accepted criteria such as youthful skin, hip/waist measurements etc.  Here it would be most helpful if anybody could provide a link to any relevant charts/tables.

Removing mis-leading modern day factors : the average woman of today has a greater variety of make-up, hair styling methods, and clothes to choose from than even Cleopatra would have had access too.  And the application of all of these articifial enhancements to a female’s looks are ‘skills’ that improve over time.  These are major off-setting factors, but remember, we are talking about raw physical desire.  In the street, I see many sexually attractive 30 year olds.  In the swimming baths, without hair styling, make-up, jewellery, or expensive clothes, I rarely see any attractive woman over 22.

Feminism increases ‘paedophilia’ : Rising testosterone levels, as well as greater obesity, mean that the feminine body found in many 20 year olds of only 50 years ago, would probably be found more often in 14,15 or 16 year olds of today.

Kendall Jenner
Is 14 y.o. Kendall Jenner really 8 years away from peak attractiveness (or 17 years!!)?

Kim Kardashian’s 14-year-old sister Kendall defends bikini photo shoot

At what age is a female most sexually attractive to a male?

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88 thoughts on “Outline for an essay – Peak Female Sexual Attractiveness”

  1. WRT your request for resources….

    I once came across a great article on the topic of male sexual attraction to young girls many years ago. Unfortunately I never saved it and I can no longer find it on the web. It was titled “”Attraction to Young Girls — Evolution, not Perversion” by N.S. Aristoff. Apparently his reference was a book called “Sexual Nature, Sexual Culture” by Donald Symons. Unfortunately I have never read this book so I have to hesitate in outright recommending it. Articles such as this one: “http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Ephebophilia

    and this one: “http://mwillett.org/mind/roving_eye.htm
    make the claim that men are most attracted to 17 year old girls but they don’t provide links to studies and I have tried in vain to come across said study abstracts. I also want to state that I disagree of the author of the “Roving Eye” article’s statement that “grown men” trying to form consensual relationships with teenagers is “reprehensible”. The only thing reprehensible here is him pissing on intertgenerational relationships without offering ANY evidence as to why they are harmful to the participants. Anyway I am afraid to say that that is all that I can provide at this point I wish I could be of more help. If I come across anything else I will let you know.

  2. WRT Japan…
    There used to be a tradition in Japan called “compensated dating” were older men would pay high school girls to be their dates or even part time “compensated girlfriends”. Japanese U-18 (girls under 18) and U-15 (girls under 15) models are very popular in Japan and many Japanese men purchase “photobooks” featuring U18/U15 posing seductively in bikinis and other revealing attire. The most famous U18 model in Japan is probably Saaya Irie, I know I said that Oriental women are not my cup of tea but she is very much one of the exceptions! Male attraction to young girls is very common theme in Japanese Anime as well. Koi Kaze and Super Dimension Fortress Macross, for example, feature 15 year old girls being pursued by older men and other Anime series such as School Rumble and Girls High seem to be just excuses to admire animated teenaged beauty. But….what has been going wrong recently….

    Unfortunately Japan is very vulnerable to U.S. trade sanctions, the Japanese are also very concerned about generating a positive image of themselves to the world (which unfortunately is infested with pedohysteria). In part as a response to international (especially American) pressure and to activism from Japanese Feminists laws were passed to crackdown on “compensated dating” and “teen prostitution”. Although the official Age of Consent in Japan is still 13 many Japanese prefectures have passed laws banning sex with girls under 16 or 18 depending on the prefecture. Also a law was passed banning all sexually sugestive images of “minors” however my understanding is that this is poorly enforced and U18/U15 photobook and modelling DVDs are still produced and obtained easily…they are just marketed as being “cute” instead of “sexy”. Ironically nationalists and “right-wingers” in Japan tend to be very pro-prostitution, pro-pornography and pro-adult/youth sexuality…a very different state of affairs from the Anglosphere.

  3. WRT Britain…
    Topless 16 year old Page 3 girls, contests to have sex with 16 year old porn stars…Canada should have remained a British Colony! Believe it or not British erotic materials featuring 16/17 year old girls were (still are) illegal in Canada even when our Age of Consent was lower than yours (used to be 14 until 2008 when it was raised to 16). BTW did you ever hear about the “Sexey’s Hot Twelve” controversy in the UK? Read about it here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/dec/15/schools.childprotection

    WRT Europe…
    The Netherlands used to have a law whereby sex with girls under 16 but over the age of 12 was legal with the approval of the girl and her parents or a social worker. This law was repealed after pressure from the usual suspects.

    In Switzerland it appears that it is legal for girls ages 16 or 17 to voluntarily work as independent prostitutes, see this article: http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/Experts_warn_of_teenage_prostitution_trend.html?cid=7002010

    The Article is dated (2008) and I have not been able to find anything recent on the subject in english or french (the only languages I can speak/read). It would be interesting to find out if these girls enjoy safer/healtheir conditions than girls who work in jurisdictions were teen prostitution is suppressed. It would also be interesting to see what kind of fees they can command vs prostitutes from other age brackets…that would have some relevance to your discussion wrt peak age for sexual attractiveness.

    I hope that you don’t mind that I have broken up my response to your post into several different comment fields, I just thought it would be better organized that way. This was one of my favorite posts of yours and it gave me a lot to write about…I look forward to reading your complete essay.

  4. Lot of truth here. And courage. Let us help each other to overcome the effects of brainwashing!

    Everyone is getting so efficiently brainwashed, even I almost forget that 16 year olds and younger nudes were common staple in all magazines just a few decades ago. And absolutely nobody thought anything about it.

    Now I hope everyone runs up the attic to make sure they don’t have old issues of the Sun or other newspaper with 15 year old nudes, lest they will rot in jail.

    I remember all magazines and newspapers published topless photos of Roman Polanski’s 12 or 13 year old “rape” “victim”. Am I right? Nowadays, possession of such a mainstream magazine or newspaper would be a felony punishable by 10 years in jail. I remember at that time the European press did not call Polanski’s deed a rape either.

    You should also check the preference of females:
    I think lots of 14 year old girls would LOVE to get a hot affair with 45 year old movie and rock stars (Mick Jagger a while ago, or even today; Brad Pitt, ..) . Or with aging Richard Gere, born on August 31, 1949.

    Even just the heartthrob of their city, a car racer, a decently in shape industrialist of 33 years could be on their preferred list. Even among regular, non-rich, non-famous guys, I guess many many 15 year old girls prefer a 21 year old guy to a 15 year old guy.

    A few more comments: you should consult people about optimizing your blog (I can help). Posting all under “uncategorized” is really hampering google trying to give you good search engine positioning. Also putting up easy ways to put you up on social bookmarks like delicious, digg, and especially reddit (check http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/ ). I also ask every reader who likes my http://human-stupidity.com blog to peruse the Share/Save button and vote for posts you like.

  5. Thanks Highwayman, some great information and links there, I appreciate it. I might just continually work on this page, as with my myth of sex trafficking article. So any more useful links you find just leave a comment and I’ll try to incorporate it into the article. I’ll also have a seperate page for arguments for and against the present age of consent, as well as pro-prostitution and pro-porn pages.

    I know that the last time I was in Switzerland (a couple of years ago) I walked into a sex shop and there was a huge party of schoolgirls (about 16), all perusing the vibrator selection like seasoned connoisseurs. I noticed on the door there was a sign saying ‘Over 16’s Only’. Switzerland isn’t a member of the EU, and I think only recently even joined the United Nations. So it’s managed to avoid many of the international treaties that other countries get blackmailed into signing by America and the UK.

    It’s tragic what is happening regarding Japan. And just when they are on the point of developing 3D tactile holographics and sex robots!

  6. Regarding females, it’s highly likely as you say that teenage girls would be naturally attracted to older men with status and resources. Feminists have had to invent the ultimate in shaming language to try to turn girls off older men (and yet still girls will fall in love easily with older guys).

    I had a big problem with a plug-in recently and had to re-install my entire site (the hard way). I used to have dozens of categories, probably did more harm than good as far as the seo is concerned. I’m trying to make sure I get the categories right this time!

  7. If you haven’t already done so you should consider attacking feminism from a health perspective.
    Men are (instinctively) most attracted to young women because they are far less likely to produce children with birth defects or other problems.
    Feminists want to stop men from marrying young wives.
    This means that feminists are actually contributing to the rising cost of healthcare!

  8. Thanks Frank, they’re very useful and I’m sure they’ll lead me on to other resources too. I’m going to constantly update that article, so if you encounter any more good links down the line, please let me know.

  9. Oh you’re such a liar. Your poll app doesn’t work through proxies. Nice job trying to save face though.

  10. I’m a guy who likes older women, so what? Trying to insult me because I caught you cheating? That’s low, man.

  11. Ballsy post. I won’t bother leaving a long, well written,grammatically correct, intelligent message; I believe we should be able to fuck, whoever we want to fuck, with their consent and let the world get on with itself. And I can safely say that as a 16 year old female.

  12. Men in the Kayapo tribe consider their women to be at their most attractive and “perfectly ripe” between 15 and 17, which is eerily similar to our expression “sweet 16”.

  13. Good idea and execution. I agree, virtually impossible to be honest in this debate.
    But if we are going after truth (and accuracy?) then eventually what needs to happen is a more refined description of attractivenss (with implied links to acceptable maturity). Of course some people physically mature sooner than others. Actaully the better indicator would probably be a measure of hormone hanges of puberty. In any age group (e.g. 16 yr olds) there is quite a bit of variation.
    TTT

  14. I don’t think it’s called “sweet 16” because it’s the age that girls BECOME attractive, but because it’s the age they’re at their MOST attractive.

  15. Yep, once a girl gets past the magic age of sweet 16 she’s on the down slope. It’s a shame but that’s just how the biology works.

  16. ”In Japan, which until the last few years had absolutely no taboos whatsoever on teenage sex”

    Not according to Japanese parents! Japan was and is still a sexually conservative society that values marriage and family, with parents holding quite strict control over their teenaged kids. Why do you think they have such an academic and work ethic? Asian parents in general and Japanese parents in particular are famous for their strict discipline and “force” their kids to spent most of their time hitting the books, not hittin’ it.

    My policy with my kids is – if you are old enough to have sex you are also old enough to live on your and provide for yourself and any possible by-product that might result from a sexual union.

    In cultures that still arrange teen marriages this is what you get – the teens are groomed for adulthood in their childhood. They become men and women in terms of duties and responsibilities before they reach 16, unlike post-modern cultures where even 30 year olds want to live irresponsibly like kids.

    Now that I’ve established that, what do y’all think of my buddy’s situation:

    He’s 30, good-looking, pleasant personality, nice guy, employed but not rich.

    His partner is a 35 year old single MILF with 2 kids from her previous man whom she left because he cheated on her and then wanted an “open marriage” when she was pregnant with their 2nd child.

    She’s a good woman. Petite, good looking, kind, active, a good cook and owns her own successful business which she runs from home. She’s a bright-smiling, positive woman who brings joy into the lives of those around her. My buddy and her make a great team and they are expecting their own child in a months time and have been living together in a cute rental home in the woods with her other 2 kids, whom my buddy loves like his own.

    Now, mind you, my buddy is 30 but can pass for 27 or so. He’s a good looking guy and I’m sure if he trolled college campuses there would be more than a few 18 year old babes smiling at him. My buddy however is not a player. He’s a relationship guy. We all know how vapid and shallow young women can be, forget about any skills like cooking or running a business.

    Do you think my buddy is a fool for settling down with a hot MILF who cooks like chef, runs her own businesss, pays the majority of their shared bills and appears to adore him like anything instead of running after wrinkle-free yet self-centered 18 year old drama queens?

  17. “Do you think my buddy is a fool for settling down with a hot MILF…?”

    That is a personal choice. Now if the man had a choice of a hot 18 year old and 35 year old, everything else being equal or even with extra drama with 18 year old – the 35 year old is going to be the second choice. I do not believe (based on what I have seen thus far) that a drama queen at 18 would not continue being so at 35, that she will somehow become “better” or “worse”, although biological worth does deteriorate – thus biasing the 35 year old towards “worse”.
    Now, if the 18 year old behaved horribly, that is to be expected and can be managed – but what most men miss is that even a 35 year old can behave equally horribly – maybe even more due to past experiences! So, why not pick carefully from the pool and pick a young woman who has her head screwed on right?

  18. If feminists are so concerned with protecting children, then why are they silent on the issue of small children being physically abused by their mothers?

    In Australia, I am regularly horrified at the ‘library book fine’ sentences handed out to abusive mothers by our courts. Children are being starved, beaten, locked in small cupboards and basically tortured by monster women on a regular basis these days. The women who carry these crimes out are often given ridiculously light punishments such as having to attend ‘counseling sessions’ and often even maintain custody of their children! It therefore infuriates me to hear total silence regarding these cases from the feminist organizations claiming to be concerned with the welfare of children. Instead, they are preoccupied with criminalizing the natural sexual urges of men. I’m suspicious of their motives as they seem to be unusually bothered by images of sexy teenage girls in the popular media.

    Perhaps I’m sick, but I’m actually more concerned with protecting little kids than punishing men who refuse to find ugly middle aged women more attractive than teen hotties.

  19. No, you’re not sick Deano, you’re a sexually healthy male, and you’re standing up for men.

    It’s just a crazy, sick, warped society that allows the same feminists who want the automatic right to flush their unborn babies down the toilet, and to completely ignore the physical abuse of toddlers by their mothers, to at the same time define healthy male sexuality as the worst thing on the planet – in the name of ‘protecting the children’.

    Here again, feminists reveal their similarity to muslims. Just as muslims force females to cover up as soon as they become sexual beings at puberty, feminists have no interest whatsoever in the (real) abuse of infants and toddlers. If they are not a sexual threat to feminists, they are of no (fake) moral concern.

    I have a major article coming up that will utterly expose the true intentions and double standards of the feminist ‘child protection’ organisations such as the NSPCC. Stay tuned.

  20. Thanks Buss, those a tremendously useful links, and I’ll incorporate the image into my essay very soon.

  21. Er, did it ever occur to any of you to wonder whether or not these teenage girls will really be gagging to have sex with a bunch of sad old bloggers? Or is what they want irrelevant? And, even if they do, how are they going to get their A levels done – they’ll be flat on their backs servicing the ‘natural’ urges of millions of men – there won’t be enough to go around – can you actually do maths? If you think middle aged women are ugly, think what most teenage girls think of middle aged men. Stick to your wives, you saddo creeps.

  22. Quote : “Or is what they want irrelevant?”
    Err..I certainly don’t belong to the group of feminist child abusers who drag 15 year old girls crying and screaming to police stations and force them to testify against their older lovers in court, then force them to go through therapy and counselling whilst telling them repeatedly that they will be fucked up for life.

    Quote : “did it ever occur to any of you to wonder whether or not these teenage girls will really be gagging to have sex with a bunch of sad old bloggers?”
    Speaking for myself I have jailbait trying to seduce me practically every day. And if teenage girls find older guys so repulsive, why is there the need for these laws at all?

    Quote : “how are they going to get their A levels done – they’ll be flat on their backs servicing the ‘natural’ urges of millions of men”
    What the hell are you talking about you idiot? Who is proposing that teenagers be required to fuck older men all day instead of attending school? Don’t you think the majority of 16 year olds today aren’t having sex anyway? They still seem to fit in their school work.

    Quote : “If you think middle aged women are ugly, think what most teenage girls think of middle aged men.”
    haha, 9 out of 10 teenage girls still fix their hair as I walk past and I am in my late 30’s. I don’t think many boys do that for middle-aged women.

    Quote : “Stick to your wives, you saddo creeps.”
    Uh, o.k. Another sad, repulsive middle-aged old bag pretending to be a man on here. How undignified is that? And why do you need to tell us to stick to our wives if no teenage girl would look at an older man?
    It must really eat away at you to realise that the only reason you can keep your husband is through legislative co-ercion (i.e. rape) and by creating one of the most nasty and destructive hysterias in human history.

  23. So i’ve done some more research and found out why the graph line plummets after the age of about 17. It’s because that was the typical age of a girl’s first pregnancy in ancestral times and therefore the age at which a girl would start using up her reproductive capacity.

    The best females for a man in ancestral times to seek after would have been those that have made it through childhood and proven their health but not yet born any offspring so that all of her reproductive years with which they could give a man offspring were ahead of them.

    A lot of the reason girls have evolved to have such firm, pert tits in their adolescent years may actually be to advertise their nulliparity and high reproductive capacity to men. In traditional hunter-gatherer societies, most women have had a baby or two by the age of 20 and this takes its toll on their bodies. Their tits lose a lot of pertness and breast feeding makes their nipples harden and darken.

    The firm, pert tits of a young adolescent girl with their soft and unused nipples are proof that she has yet been through a pregnancy and breast fed a baby and is still at maximum reproductive capacity.

    http://img138.imageshack.us/f/proofjbisbest.png/

  24. Thanks Buss, I’ll highlight this later in the week and also add it the main article.

  25. In the good old days of Japan, if I am not mistaken, a boy becomes a man after reaching the age of 15. I don’t know what sort of ceremony or ritual happens for that to make it official.
    And if I’m not mistaken again, the drinking and smoking age in Japan is now 21, I think. Nonetheless, the Japanese are slowly getting pussified undeniably.

  26. “So, why not pick carefully from the pool and pick a young woman who has her head screwed on right?”

    Pankaj is right. Crazy and psychotic females don’t count, regardless of how privileged they are by having a fanny.

  27. Jesus Christ to the children undergoing death-camp sessions in Austrailia. With this kind of abuse, these creates a deep psychological impact and these people will be traumatized throughout their adult lives. With this kind of upbringing, it tempers them with a cynical view towards society, potentially creating psyhopaths out of the factory.

  28. The AntiFeminist is doing SOMETHING right to still be attractive at his late 30’s.

    *What’s the secret, may I ask?*

  29. Well I’m not exactly a sex god, and believe me, if I glance too openly at jailbait these days, then I’ll often get called a perv or worse. At the same time, I still get stunningly beautiful girls of all ages licking their lips, staring at me, making nice comments about me, and even coming over and sitting next to me – at least once a day. Although I’m in my late 30’s, most girls think I still look in my late 20’s. I have a post drafted a few days ago, which I might publish today, which has relevance to this.

  30. I think usually yes, the peak physical attractiveness for women is in the teens and early twenties. I am not sure if that was mine though. See…teen girls aren’t really too confident. I had pretty much a perfect body when I was 17, yet always convinced myself I was fat. In my twenties I had horrible acne…and that pretty much messed up my looks but I was happy and I always had a boyfriend no matter if I had zits or not. Now I am in my 30s and have 2 kids. I don’t have as perfect a body as before kids and I wish I had my old stomach back but I have more confidence now than I did in my younger years. I still have a good body though…and most people can eat right and exercise and stay in good shape as they get older. Personally…I think my face is the best it’s ever been. As a teen I had too much collagen in my face which made it too round. In my twenties I had the acne. Now my face has lost some of the collagen and lost the zits and looks better I think. No wrinkles, thanks to the overload of collagen I once had and the retin-a prescriptions for acne.

    But anyway, I also wanted to say that being in peak physical shape and young is only ONE part of attractiveness. Do 40 year old men really want relationships with 16 year olds? No. They may like to look at them or think they are pretty, but very rarely will you see them pursue a relationship with someone in their late teens or early twenties. I think most girls that age like guys their own age too. They like to have things in common, hang out with the same friends, etc. I think just because you get older you don’t lose the attraction of your mate all the time. There are love and emotions, people get attached to each other…want to grow old together.

    The only problem I can see in our society today is the fact that most men are not naturally monogamous. They DO like to have younger women but they also like to keep the older ones. The only reason they might “trade in” the older one is because you are not “allowed” to have two women at once in our society. Back in the day men would have many wives. Just because they want more than one doesn’t mean they don’t love the one they had first. I think monogamy can sometimes DESTROY relationships. I am now getting divorced and I do think the idea of monogamy really did play a part in destroying it. Anyway…I know that is not a popular or politically correct opinion but it is what it is.

  31. “The only reason they might “trade in” the older one is because you are not “allowed” to have two women at once in our society.”

    Islam, polygyny, the sexual trade union.

  32. QUOTE: “Do 40 year old men really want relationships with 16 year olds? No.”

    Well 16 year old girls are illegal in many US and Australian States. Furthermore as the Age of Consent is 18 in California the meme that 16 year olds are “jailbait” and “16 will get you 20” has spread throughout the Anglosphere and beyond as a lot of entertainment media is produced in Southern California. Even in jurisdictions where 16 year old girls are legal there are many ways for a man to get into trouble via laws against “grooming”, laws criminalizing men for taking a sexy photograph of thier under-18 girlfriend, vaguely written “sexual exploitation” laws such as we have in Canada, laws against having sexual relationships with under-18s if the person over 18 is in “a posiiton of authority”..etc. Given this legal situation is it any wonder that older men avoid relationships with young girls? Also keep in mind that in many jurisdictions laws governing sex with “minors” are strict liability offences where the adult will be punished even if he reasonably believed that the girl in question was over 16/17/18 (depending on the jurisdiction) therefor not only do men generally avoid under 18s but the also tend to avoid under 21s as well (to avoid the risk of an underage sex charge should the girl turn out to be under 18).

    On top of the legal situation described above you also have a cultural environment where the definition of pedophilia has been extended to include sexual attraction to girls under the age of 18. Thus a man with a 16 year old girlfriend (or a man who desires one) will be branded a “sick pervert” or a “pedophile” and risk serious social ostracism.

    Another thing that prevents many relationships between older men and young girls from happening are laws such as the legal drinking age ( 18 or 19 in Canada depending on the province and 21 in all US States) legal driving ages and laws/practices WRT how old you have to be to participate in certain recreactional activities (nightclubs..etc) these laws and practices encourage a high level of age segregation.

    Finally there is the fact that many 16 year old girls today are brought up in a culture of extended childhood and the result of this upbringing may make a number of 16 year olds unattractive to men (for relationship purposes). While some people may say “just let a kid be a kid” some mental health professionals have noted that this culture of extended childhood is NOT HEALTHY for adolescents.

    In conclusion I am simply trying to drive home the point that while it may be true that many men avoid 16 year old girls this situation is an artificial one created by age of consent laws, pedohysteria, legal and cultural age segregation practices and a culture of extended childhood…if those factors where to change I garruantee you that there would be a very significant increase in the number of men who would be interested in 16 year old girls.

  33. I agree with all the things you just said…but I think it is nice to wait until a girl is out of high school to start a sexual relationship. At least then if she were to get pregnant she would at least have her hs education behind her. And I don’t think men who are attracted to teen girls are pedophiles. It is actually nothing the same…as pedophiles like prepubescent children and are basically monsters who take the innocence from a child forcefully. I HATE child molesters/rapist. But I think it is best for everyone to wait to have sex until they are done with high school…I really do. It is not gonna kill anyone to abstain until they are old enough to deal with the consequences sex can bring. When I was a teen, they told us it was best to wait but taught about condoms and safe sex too. This abstinence only education crap is what is causing more pregnancies though in teens.

  34. A perfect reply Highwayman.

    I’ve just come back from vacation, btw, and read ‘the case against adolescence’ while I was away. Excellent read and I’ll write a review of it for InMalaFide in the next couple of weeks (as that site is much bigger than mine, it should get on to the front pages of Google for people searching for information and reviews of the book).

    A brilliant book, but dissapointed (although not surprised) that it made no mention of the motives of the sexual trade union in extending childhood. Particularly noticeable because he makes a very plausible argument that it was trade unions that promoted child labour laws in order to keep out the younger competition, on the spurious basis of ‘protecting children’. It seems impossible that he could not recognise that same argument with regard to the social purity movements and their successful efforts in raising the age of consent in America and the UK, especially as he makes clear how throughout nearly all of history childhood has ended at puberty (i.e as soon as they became sexual – so surely feminists creating the myth (but legal reality) of teenagers being non-sexual, or at least non-sexually self-determinite, has played the greatest part of all in extending childhood – much more than the toy industry or MTV, for example.

    Still, a thoroughly well argued and informative read. I wish every politician could be forced to read it.

    Don’t know if you knew, but he’s got another book on the same theme recently published : http://drrobertepstein.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=10&Itemid=29

  35. Thank you and I hope you had a great time on your vacation. I agree with you that every politician should read this book…if the culture of extended chilhood were to end then the ability of the sexual trade union to exploit it in order to criminalize male sexuality would be seriously compromised. AFA Dr. Epstein’s inability to link the extension of childhood with the sexual trade union…my guess is that a lot of people wear blinders when looking at the early feminist movement and assume that it was a noble movement that was concerned with nothing more than obtaining votes for women…if only more people were to read Ernest Belfort Bax and Steve Moxon.

  36. I e-mailed Robert Epstein the other day to ask him his thoughts on the role that the sexual trade union played in extending childhood. I recieved a reply back within a couple of hours. Although he did say that he thought these things were all ‘intertwined’, it seems pretty clear that it’s as you describe – it’s almost impossible for most men to see feminism itself, as a historical movement, as something in any way bad. He was very polite btw, and told me some of his future plans for the promotion of his arguments.

    I also e-mailed an ‘anti-sex hysteria’ blogger, asking him why such sites seem so reluctant to criticise feminism itself. He told me that feminism is so accepted that attacking it would be seen as attacking women, and that he would never link to my site because of my title.

  37. I disagree with this. I think a lot of women are looking great well into their middle ages nowadays. Not that they don’t look good in their 20’s too but come on. Nothing ‘mangina’ about saying that, in fact I think it’s kind of gay to say otherwise. I do think there is something to be said for the dynamic of a man being older than the woman he’s with though.

  38. Yet more evidence that teenage girls are the most attractive. I read this on page 177 of The Body Language Rules by Judi James:

    “Any female celebrity is expected to maintain her slim
    body and unlined face throughout the aging process
    to signal youth and breeding ability. Women in their
    forties, fifties, sixties, and seventies will be expected to
    avoid letting themselves go, by using cosmetic surgery
    to replicate the ideal image, which is something between
    childhood and adolescence. Models, who don’t have to
    have the acting or performing talent that tends to come
    with age and experience and can therefore fit this ideal
    profile of beauty, will be roughly between the ages of
    fourteen and nineteen.

    So what’s wrong with clear, unlined skin and a toned
    body? Nothing, if it’s natural or at least natural looking.
    An image of youth is an image of breeding potential,
    and -in evolutionary terms- it’s natural for a male to opt
    for a female who appears to have many breeding years in
    front of her.”

  39. I have come across your website a few times and have agreed with a lot of things you have said. I don’t necessarily disagree with this idea (especially looking at it from a purely reproductive standpoint). But I was just curious as to how you feel about longterm, monogomous relationships. I was a very attractive girl at 18 and around that general age. I was on a major dance team for a major university and did a little modeling on the side so I know what it like to be liked for my looks. I am now married with 2 kiddos and coming up on the big 3.0. I still look substantially younger than I am because I have to carry my I. D. to rated R movies. I have been denied entry more than once until my husband got done parking the car and could buy our tickets. All of that explanation to say that I love my husband very much and feel completely secure in our relationship. But are you saying that men should just chuck out a wife that loves them and has born their children simply because she is getting on in years? Or was this purely just a statement of when women are most attractive and that is it?
    If you were to find a sweet young thing at 18 and marry her, would you still be into her and excited about her when she is 50 and you 65?

    I’m not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful of your opinions at all. I am really just honestly curious.

  40. Thanks for your comment, and I don’t mind what might appear ‘criticisims’ of my arguments at all, so long as they are polite.

    You may find that this article I posted recently might answer your question a little – http://theantifeminist.com/stalkers-evolutionary-psychology-naturalistic-fallacy/

    I’ve never said, and do not think, that if evolutionary psychology does predict men to prefer teenage girls as most sexually attractive, it follows that a husband ‘ought’ to trade in his wife for a younger model as soon she hits 25.

    My argument relates mostly to the feminist and media definition of the male attraction to teenage girls as paedophilia. Also feminist laws on child pornography, the assumption that teenage girls will be harmed by sex with older men, as well as the entire feminist motivation behind laws ‘protecting’ teenage girls, given that evolutionary theory (and a dose of reality) would also predict that older women with power would make restricting male access to younger, more attractive females a priority.

    This site is not about telling men that they ought to have sex with teenage girls, it’s about the obvious truth that the increasingly insane and draconian laws and punishments that feminists create for men who have sex with teenage girls ought to be questioned in a men’s rights context.

    Personally I have no desire whatsoever to marry, and if I did so, it would be for the sole reason that I wanted to raise children, and because marriage is the best institution in which to do that.

    My opinion on marriage (and the family) is that it is on its way to becoming a dwindling institution, and that the sexual morality of society can no longer be based upon preserving the family unit and long term monogamous relationships as the ideal.
    Given that it is becoming increasingly obvious that thanks to stem cell technology and regenerative medicine, as well as dna sequencing and gene therapy, there is going to be a rapid increase in life-expectancy for our generation (and possibly the defeat of aging itself), governments are likely going to to take measures at some point to actively limit the number of children being born. Current paedohysteria actually weakens the family unit as it is, as well as ripping apart the fabric of wider society, and could not be maintained or jusitifed in a society in which a minority of people chose (or were allowed) to have families.

    I would like to add that aging and the day by day palpable loss of sexual beauty is a terribly cruel thing that nature forces females to endure. That’s likely to become an irrelevance soon thanks to regenerative medicine and the biological defeat of the aging process, as well as the fact that virtual sex, in which you can choose how you look to your sexual partner, will soon enough be the prefferred way of fucking for most people on the planet.

  41. After reading a lot of your material, I still think that I agree with the idea of most of it, but the methods not as much. It bothered me and I wondered why, but I think that it simply boils down to belief systems. I am a Christian. So I believe in the sanctity of marriage. I believe in the traditional family unit. I stay at home with the kids and my husband works. I have never been made to feel that I have lost my luster to him. He tells me everyday how much he loves me and thinks I’m beautiful. We have a very very healthy sex life. It is important to my emotional state to hear those things from him. It makes me feel good. He may be saying them just for those reasons, but I don’t care. I like it anyway. I think that most women would agree with me.

    I do think that it is simply abhorrent what has been done to men during the whole so called feminist rights movement. However, I think that the stigma put on women like me is likewise abhorrent. I am lumped into a group just because I’m a woman of man eating harpies and that is not at all how I see the world. Furthermore, I am also hated by the feminists because I stand for everything that they hate and have worked so hard to get away from. I am not a mindless bimbo that needed a man to take care of me. I am a strong, educated woman with two degrees who made a decision, in my right mind, to stay at home and raise my children instead of choosing a career that would have taken me until I was 30 or 32 before I could even start thinking about a family.

    So, like I said, I agree with a lot of your basic ideas, but I don’t agree with casual sex and all that simply because of my religious beliefs. Not because I want to keep men to myself or that I find teenage girls a threat in any way. I told you before that I am completely secure in my relationship and have no fears of my husband running around on me. However, to be completely honest, also because of my religious beliefs I don’t believe in divorce so even if he did run around, he would have to leave me and not I him.

    I look forward to hearing whether youagree or disagree with any of this. Or whether you just think that my belief system is crazy. :). I’m sure you have, but the blog ladies against feminism is pretty similar to the way I believe, but I’m sure you’ve already seen it. Either way I hope to continue to look through your material and maybe I’ll even be as annoying as too comment here or there again. :).

  42. Hi, just a thought: if we really want to make a difference, do you think that men should put their ‘sexuality’ aside a bit? I mean, go, fuck whoever, as long as it’s legal, but every time a man feeds into the feminist pedo-hysteria, and discusses young women in a sexual manner, it gives them ammunition.

    I understand the urge to rub their noses in it, because that is what they are doing raising gay children who become strippers, and raising man haters who puke at the idea of a male looking at them nude, but who seek every opportunity to undress in front of women.

    When was the last time you heard an actual feminist opinion leader discuss who, how or with what she has sexual feelings? It is that refusal to discuss sex that gives them the moral high ground to proclaim us perverts. I am not saying hide, inhibit or cease in your sexual nature, but wondering if we don’t destroy the cause of justice by giving them a target.

    And every time we reveal our sexual nature, they get yet another chance to peek in the door, and rob us voyeuristically, of our own sexual identities.

    That’s why I am trying to analyse ‘what it is’ that actually turns them on beyond sex, and I have read what you write–you are on to something–but one thing that turns them on is power over children. And, by the theory that ‘men are all pedos and rapists,’ they are winning public opinion because genuine male activism gets shot in the ass by BEING what they claim we are.

    So, what do tyou think about the science stating men are rapists? And, by that same science, women are in fact, prone to being pedophiles? Especially if we work together to define acts of a sexual nature that aren’t as apparent as hetero-normative behavior, i.e. women breast feeding 8 year old’s and having orgasms, or women’s tende3ncies to be voyeuristic, and that tendency placing itself near nude children?

  43. When was the last time you heard an actual feminist opinion leader discuss who, how or with what she has sexual feelings? It is that refusal to discuss sex that gives them the moral high ground to proclaim us perverts. I am not saying hide, inhibit or cease in your sexual nature, but wondering if we don’t destroy the cause of justice by giving them a target.

    Well, actually, if you visit Feministing.com, two of the three main bloggers there regularly boast of the fact that their male partner is a black man. Germain Greer published a book – ‘Beautiful Boy’ with the intent of ‘winning back the right for women to sexually admire young boys’. The book was glowingly reviewed by Natasha Walker, held up as one of the senior ‘third wave feminists’ in the Uk, and author of ‘Living Dolls’, which attacks the male sexual admiration for young girls. Have you heard of the slut walkers? Young, naieve feminists for sure, but future feminist leaders amongst them.

    That’s why I am trying to analyse ‘what it is’ that actually turns them on beyond sex, and I have read what you write–you are on to something–but one thing that turns them on is power over children. And, by the theory that ‘men are all pedos and rapists,’ they are winning public opinion because genuine male activism gets shot in the ass by BEING what they claim we are.

    Do you really want me to go along with the likes of senior figures in the men’s rights movement and pretend that men don’t find teenage girls attractive, just so feminists who compare killing unborn children to buying couches don’t have so much ‘ammunition’ to throw at us their inflated and sickeningly exploititive paedophile slanders? And how far does it go? If and when feminists raise the age of consent to 25, and then inflate the clinical lable of ‘paedophile’ as any man who is attracted to ‘girls’ under 25, do we need to continue to pretend that all men are really genetically hardwired to find grannies most fuckable?

    The legislative creep of sex offender laws threaten more and more normal, morally good men, and it can only happen because of paedohysteria. At some point, some MRAs (if the men’s rights movement isn’t just a conservative father’s rights movement) are going to have to put their heads on the block and speak forthrightly about this issue. The idea that the men’s rights movement as a whole might be damaged by it is a complete joke.

    I think science surely states that both men and women will seek to further their own selfish reproductive interests given the opportunity. That means that men, given their superior physical strength and the nature of the sexual act, will more likely be physical rapists than women. Women, on the other hand, will more likely use weapons such as shaming tactics and gossip etc (example : calling men ‘paedophiles’ and ‘child abusers’ who have sex with nubile, fertile, peak sexual attractive teenagers.)

    I don’t know about that theory that women are more likely to be paedophiles. I only know that women are statistically more likely to physically abuse children, and that’s what we shoud focus upon when the padeo accusations start flying – the fact that it is women who have defined sexual abuse as to be a thousand times of greater concern than physcial abuse, NOT feeding their perverted selfish value system.

    I wonder, btw, what you think of recent articles in the men’s rights movement attacking not only the culture of rape, but the moral significance of the act of rape itself? Although I agree with these articles 100%, it does strike me as perhaps a little bizarre that the official men’s rights position appears to be that rape is an overrated crime exploited by feminists, and yet a 30 year old man bringing his 17 year old girlfriend to multiple-orgasm is indeed a child raping paedophile freak, and any MRA who doubts that feminist created moral rule should be kicked out of the movement before they bring it down.

  44. Exactly. I think if you want to have an uncorrupted picture of what men go for, you should look at “primitive” societies like Africa and some Muslim countries. Why do you think such countries have such a high birth-rate? The answer is unsettling: by having men aged 40-85 sleeping with girls who would be jailbait in the civilized world. They get away with it on grounds of culture and/or religion. The Earth’s population is growing through institutionalized paedophilia.

  45. How soon we forget…

    Our (USA) recently immigrated Great-great grandads, who as mature adult men, after building a nestegg up in the land of opportunity typically married a local early teen or sent out offers of marriage to be published in the Old Country & countless early teen “mail order brides” would take ship & train to hook up… with the inlaw’s blessings.

    I’d venture that if a femnazi-mangina were transported back to the 19th Century & verbally pilloried our forefathers to their face as being “child rapists, molesters & pedophiles, our Great great grandad’s would have pulled out their Colt SAA revolver & blown their head off.

    Quote (expanded) from Mark E. Pietrzyk’s well known article used in multiple universities as a course discussion handout:

    Up until the late nineteenth century, the age of consent in many countries continued to be fixed at twelve. Although an orthodox interpretation of Biblical law could find no grounds for condemning the exploitation of children, sexual or otherwise, many Christians felt that the rights of women and female children to resist unwanted sexual unions was a moral imperative. Consequently, reform movements arose to lobby for an increase in the age of consent.

    A chief concern of many of these moral reformers was the problem of child prostitution. The use of female children as prostitutes was becoming increasingly prevalent in the nineteenth century, due to men’s fear of catching venereal disease from older prostitutes. Many female children were being sold by their parents or forced by economic circumstances to service men sexually. Many of these children acquired venereal diseases themselves as a result, some dying. Others were raped and tortured. To remedy this state of affairs, a British feminist by the name of Josephine Butler lobbied to raise the age of consent, which at that time in Britain was still twelve. Aided by the crusading reporting of W. T. Stead of the Pall Mall Gazette, who documented the existence of girls as young as three to five years old in England’s brothels, Butler was successful in getting the age of consent raised to sixteen.68

    The publicity created by Butler’s campaign spread to the United States, which soon saw the rise of its own Christian feminist movement to raise the age of consent. As of 1886, twenty-five of the American states, following earlier English law, had an age of consent of ten years; four states, following Christian canon law on marriage, had an age of consent of twelve; Delaware, following Christian canon law on the age of discretion, set its age of consent at seven.69

    The Women’s Christian Temperance Union and various allied organizations conducted petition drives and lobbying to raise the age of consent in the states and the District of Columbia. Initial successes sparked a backlash in some states; in 1892, the New York Senate, which had previously raised New York’s age of consent to sixteen, considered lowering it back to ten. Reflecting a split between liberal and conservative views on the subject, reports from Texas indicated that older men tended to favor retaining a low age of consent while younger men favored raising it. Nevertheless, by 1895, reformers succeeded in raising the age of consent to between sixteen and eighteen in twenty-two states. However, those states reflecting the most conservative religious views – those in the South – lagged in raising their age of consent. Alabama, Mississippi, North Carolina, and South Carolina kept their age of consent at ten, while Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, and West Virginia set their age of consent at twelve (Jerry Lee Lewis & Elvis anyone?). But eventually, these states as well raised their age of consent.70

    By 1918, the Catholic Church finally raised its permissible age for marriage from fourteen for males and twelve for females (remember Brooke Shields in the film Pretty Baby getting married at age 12 in all legality in an American Roman Catholic Church?) to sixteen for males and fourteen for females.71 To this day, in a number of underdeveloped, predominantly Catholic countries, it is common for adult males to marry and impregnate barely pubescent girls. In Mexico, adult men may wed girls of fourteen years of age or even younger.72

  46. Going by my own experience as a girl and young woman I suffered the frenzy (and I do use those words with care and consideration) of unwanted male attention between 12 and 22. It didn’t stop after that, but dropped off a lot, thankfully. It was definitely at its worst when I was 17, so I would say 17. But I would definitely dispute this whole ‘natural biological attraction’ theory. Young women are more gullible, more desperate to be affirmed as attractive and desirable, and less likely to object to inappropriate and abusive actions. That is what men like about extremely young girls and women.

  47. Lol, you mean you got little attention yourself when you were young (but were envious when your prettier classmates recieved it) and now you’re psychotic with jealous rage that you don’t get any attention at all.

    Young women are more gullible, more desperate to be affirmed as attractive and desirable, and less likely to object to inappropriate and abusive actions. That is what men like about extremely young girls and women.

    I think you’ll find it’s more their perky breasts, flawless skin, tight waists, and nubile tight asses. But teenage girls are exploitable enough to be manipulated by older jealous whores like you, keen to limit the sexual competition to your own rancid rusted vaginas.

    Now go back to omega male Manboobz, I’m not publishing any more of your self-rationalisations and hate speech here again.

  48. I’d like to float a theory. It has to do with body hair. The shaving of body hair has become nearly compulsory in first-world countries. Do you think women could have lauched this fashion in order to blur the distinction between nubile and non nubile females. Thus confusing the signals for men and making them more likely to get themselves into trouble?

  49. It does seem a little odd the fashion to completely shave off the pubic hair, and why it is that most men obviously find it a turn on. I mean, assuming that pubic hair is a signal of sexual maturity, it seems that women actually want to appear pre-pubescent.

  50. Most women in Japan were GIVEN or SOLD into marriage at age 12 or so or the onset of puberty until about WW2, so the emphasis on extended education of daughters is just a post-war adoption by a submitted/defeated Japan of the Anglo 20th century post lesbian-spiritualist-suffragette-Eastern USA “Elites” debutante-sexual restraint ettiquette schooled parallel alternative to/copycat of the Male World culture. Before that orphans or unwanted young female relatives could be sold into the indentured geisha system.

    Japan’s national legal age of consent is 13, with only primarily recent reactionary increases to age 16+ in some prefectures… due to feminist & tabloid sensational press a decade or two ago of up to almost 25% of Japanese young women in Middle School or High School engaging in dating with 21 thru 80 year old men (quite often with sex) in exchange for gifts, shopping sprees
    or cash at least once (or many times) during their teen years. Otherwise parents do not generally interfere in their teen’s sexual activities & leave it up to the teen if they want to engage in sex or not & at what age, so long as it doesn’t seriously impact studies.

    excerpt from the Anthroplogy of Sex – Japan:

    “…. The new art forms of anime and manga copy the themes of earlier erotic art…. male-male, boy-love, boy-love for girls, female-female and girl-love. … perfectly legal in Japan… banned as pornography in the West…”
    “… Again, much of the above information was hidden from Western eyes. The US army burned warehouses full of Japanese erotica and what remained was censored in both Japan and the West. It is only really now that there has been a serious attempt to study it. But what is even more important is what it tells us about human sexuality in general. It turns out that Western norms are not universal. We should stop pretending they are…”
    “…. Books showing explicit shunga are freely available… (Screech’s book contains images and text concerning bestiality, pederasty and pedophilia)…. Apparently (Edo period) shunga are of historic and artistic value, but manga is contemporary, commercial and therefore of no value (which of course, once applied to shunga)….don’t expect censorship to be rational and coherent, but this is something of a glaring contradiction… by banning contemporary images we rob the future of their right to decide…”

    Post WW2 Japan was forced to outlaw sexual intercourse based “Prostitution” by liberal & conservative types of christian pseudo-feminist groups in the mid-1950s, who incidently represented only 1% of the population… but they (Sex Industry) obviously worked around that in all other directions (Vastly larger per capita than the USA or European Sex Industry as a whole). Until just a few years ago – (again post WW2 only) Japan’s mosaic censorship… due to Gen Douglas MacArthur implementing USA Depression Era Victorian/Christian Women’s Temperance Movement obscenity laws onto a defeated Japan – pubic hair defacto illegal obscenity.. you know, from the French Postcards / Stag reels days.

    So twenty years ago an American flying into Japan & carrying a Playboy magazine would have the Playboy either confiscated by Japanese Customs at the airport or at minimum they would take a black magic marker & blackout all the crotch shots throughout the magazine. Now, how “In The Realm of the Senses” got made…? All Japanese Pink films (“dirty flicks”) from the 60s, 70s & pretty much 80s were all T&A & “R” rated style humping. Oddly enough, being a quite liberal though traditional patriarchal agnostic modified buddhist/shinto culture they view broadly speaking sex as a strictly biological + pleasure function, as eating, sleeping, etc. That’s why although there is mosaic censorship of human genitals, there is no censorship of human anuses, or 18+ teen girls in high school uniforms having orgies with Labrador Retrievers or pooping all over each other… animal genitals, poop, vomit being uncensored and therefore not technically obscene.

    USA operates under “moral obscenity” based on the “religious” or “philosophical” agenda of those passing the laws. Japan only operates under “technical obscenity” limited to the amoral censorship of human genitals per the USA doing of the Great Depression/WW2.

    History of Japan from pre-Industrial Revolution days to as little as a generation or two ago:
    http://www.psychohistory.com/htm/06a1_incest.html
    excerpts –

    “…temple prostitution of both boys and girls, and widespread child prostitution, including the ancient geisha system (in operation until WW2 until banned by American General Douglas MacArthur etc.). Japanese brothels would start girls in (oral & manual) sexual service at 5 to 7 years old (age 12 to 13 for vaginal intercourse). Pederasty of boys & (young transvestites) – shudo, by the aristocracy (& warriors) and priesthood is well documented since at least the 14th century, with young boys given by their parents to be used anally by samurais and by priests in monasteries – the buggered boys sometimes having been worshipped as gods incarnate in religious cults similar to those of the cult of the Virgin in the West.

    “…In traditional Japan, quite young girls were introduced into sex by older boys who visited their bedrooms at night with the complicity of the girl’s parents (called night-prowling, yobai). The boys “assembled in communal huts and instructed slightly younger village males in sex approaches and techniques…” Although they recommended “gentle persuasion,” there was no guarantee that all was so gentle in fact, since the parents “looked the other way” in accordance with custom while the older boys had intercourse with their young daughters…”

    “… Western observers even today often notice that Japanese mothers still masturbate their young children during the day in public and at night in the family bed – in order, they say, “to put them to sleep.” … The average Japanese today sleeps (generally on the same mattress or at least the same room) with his or her children until the children are ten or fifteen years old… one recent Japanese study found daughters still sleeping with their fathers over 20 percent of the time even after age sixteen. … The mean age in one study of children sleeping alone is 12.7 years…

    … other studies show that the majority of urban parents in 1981 reported that they had lately begun to be bothered by the thought that children with whom they slept might be aware of their intercourse… The researchers found that Japanese mothers and sons often sleep in the same bed and have sex together, although the exact incidence in the population was not investigated. According to the phone interviews, Japanese mothers teach their sons how to masturbate, helping them to achieve first ejaculation in much the same manner as they earlier helped them with toilet training…considering the common frequency with which Japanese mothers sleep alone with their sons while the father is out having sex with other women – extramarital sex still being the rule for most married men in Japan… the acceptance of sibling incest in early historic times, the routine acceptance of pederasty up until recently, the wide extent even today of co-sleeping and (both sexes & intergenerational) co-bathing, … and upon the very limited contact fathers have with their families…”

  51. I see the attractiveness of women as a mathematical formula. This depends primarily on 4 factors. First, the shape of the body which often reaches its best when they stop growing (around 16). Second, it depends on the weight Effective d, which is the weight where she looks better for her height. Third, the freshness of the skin, which is deteriorating every year since birth. Also depends on the weather. Many women of my country in their 18s-22s tends to become more attractive when they come to live in a colder country within 2 years approx.

    I develop a complex equation which plots the attractiveness of women vs time, but I can not write it in this format. Well, I married a young woman( thanks god i came from a machist country lol), I used to date fuglys feminist because they are free ….. . I feel sorry for those virgins who married a feminist.

    The plot has two points of intersection. When the girl start puberty and when the woman is no longer attractive. Its maximum is around 17 years. From 17 the graph become a almost linear function. Before of that, it behaves like a logarithmic function.

  52. My wife does that and she insists that it is all about personal hygiene and nothing to do with fashion or making herself look younger or nubile, or indeed pre-pubescent.
    However, she did admit that if she wears a micro-bikini (as many younger women are almost compelled to do in order to keep up with current fashions), it becomes necessary for women to shave that area, otherwise big black (or in some: ginger) hairs protruding out the sides of the thong look terrible – worse than hairy underarms…

  53. I want to post up some more explanations about what the graph means and how it relates to male psychology, even paedophilia.

    If you want me to, I’ll post it up next week. It’s going to be quite big. 🙂

  54. ” In the swimming baths, without hair styling, make-up, jewellery, or expensive clothes, I rarely see any attractive woman over 22.”

    How do you know who is over 22/under 22? Just curious.

  55. ” In the swimming baths, without hair styling, make-up, jewellery, or expensive clothes, I rarely see any attractive woman over 22.”

    How do you know who is over 22/under 22? Just curious.

    Good question…and note that asking it assumes that youth = beauty (in women).

    I swim quite regularly at the pools of my old university. Nearly all the females there are aged 18-21 🙂 with a few post grads older than that.

    A lot of them are absolutely stunning, with perfect or near perfect bodies. Admittedly, a lot of them (even the ones who look 18 or 19) have visible cellulite on their thighs etc. These, of course, are from the top echelons of society, so quite a privilaged gene pool (excuse the pun).

    I also swim at public baths and very rarely see any attractive females who aren’t teenagers (in the pool). I have, however, seen young office workers who looked extremely ordinary in the pool, and then an hour later in the cafe, after they have applied some make-up and put on their mini-skirts and jewellery etc, look very sexy. I think I mentioned that in the article.

  56. “…. youth = beauty (in women).”

    Indeed. Women peak somewhere in their 20s for external attractiveness. All honest men acknowledge this, as do most women.

  57. “…. youth = beauty (in women).”

    Indeed. Women peak somewhere in their 20s for external attractiveness. All honest men acknowledge this, as do most women.

    I think you might be confusing the concept of ‘peak fertility’ in women (which is allegedly in the early 20’s) with what men would have evolved to find attractive to maximise their own reproductive chances.

    In fact, the only thing I would query in Steve Moxon is that he does seem to accept that a man would find the age at which a woman is most fertile most attractive. Steve Moxon’s undrstanding of evolutionary psychology is far far greater than mine, but it seems to me that this ignores other elements such as physical cues of virginity (definitely not something likely to reach a peak a decade after the onset of puberty). And I think I remember that he does actually mention indicators of liklihood of female virginity (as close as possible to the menarche) as an attractive signal for men in his book.

    Teenage girls have greater ‘youth’ than women in their twenties. Collagen levels reach their peak in the teenage years. It is the decrease in collagen which begins in the mid to late teens that gives the skin the appearance of aging and why the multi-billion dollar cosmetics industry continually tries to invent creams that (supposedly) promote the restoration of collagen.

  58. “Teenage girls have greater ‘youth’ than women in their twenties. ”

    I don`t see a big difference. Then again, I am no expert.
    Cheers.

  59. I don`t see a big difference.

    You said that youth = beauty and that is why women in their twenties are at their most beautiful. I was simply pointing out that teenage girls are more youthful than women in their twenties.

    Then again, I am no expert.

    Then why are you giving your (dogmatic) opinion? I’m no expert either, but at least I’ve given sensible and obvious reasons to defend my position.

  60. theantifeminist

    You mentioned the biological defeat of the aging process. This is fascinating stuff to me.
    When do you think the human race will defeat the aging process? This century? Within the next 100 years?

  61. Well, I’m not an expert on aging, so take whatever I say with a pinch of salt. But it does appear to me to be apparent that breakthoughs are being made almost every week, especially with regard to stem cells. For example, just yesterday : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9713764/Stem-cells-from-patients-blood-could-help-fight-heart-disease.html

    Aubrey de Grey thinks the first person to live to 1,000 has already been born :

    http://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging.html

    The futurologist Ray Kurzweil thinks immortality is only 20 years away : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/6217676/Immortality-only-20-years-away-says-scientist.html

    As I said, I’m not an expert, but from what I’ve read, reversing aging at least in some aspects relating to beauty should be one of the easiest things to achieve with stem cells, and should be here very soon (especially because it will also be the most financially profitable).

    Many woman already undergo having the skin on their faces being chemcially peeled off in order that younger, or less damaged skin cells can replace it. This is a popular cosmetic treatment already. I imagine that very soon it will be common to combine this with injections of stem cells. In other words, I wouldn’t be surprised if in as little as 10 years this will be a must have for any woman over 25 with any money. It should essentially return a woman’s skin (of any age) to its perfect youthful teenage state (when the stem cell production of collagen, which gives skin it’s elasticity, and teenage girls their beauty, is at its peak).

    Of course, what might happen is a lot of dissapointed men after thinking they have pulled a teenage cracker, and then when she strips off, the rest of her body has the wrinkled appearance of a 50 year old woman.

  62. You (theantifeminist) wrote: “It is the decrease in collagen which begins in the mid to late teens that gives the skin the appearance of aging”

    Not to nitpick, but dont you mean mid to late twenties? :-s

  63. Well, then I’ve been misinformed.
    I read that it is in our twenties and early thirties that our skin starts to produce less collagen.
    guess i shouldnt trust everything i read on the internet, eh

  64. I didn’t know where to ask you this, so I’ll put it here. Are you aware of Wilhelm Reich’s work and did you read any of his books? Particularly, The Sexual Revolution and The Mass Psychology of Fascism.

    Thanks FSOL, I’ve never read him, but taking a quick look at the wikipedia page for ‘The Mass Psychology of Fascism’, it does indeed look like I’d enjoy him!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Sexualit%C3%A4t_im_Kulturkampf

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